1 00:00:03,050 --> 00:00:01,189 well it's good to be back with you again 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:03,060 for an addition the Kevin cook show I 3 00:00:07,099 --> 00:00:05,490 got Heidi Hollis on board and we've got 4 00:00:10,430 --> 00:00:07,109 two different guests tonight so the 5 00:00:14,780 --> 00:00:10,440 first one is Thomas creel and he's a an 6 00:00:16,490 --> 00:00:14,790 expert in the money laundering and I 7 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:16,500 have a lot of experience and well not 8 00:00:21,050 --> 00:00:19,410 personal experience but people I've been 9 00:00:25,429 --> 00:00:21,060 associated with there were very great 10 00:00:28,339 --> 00:00:25,439 money laughter's tonight that's cool no 11 00:00:31,910 --> 00:00:28,349 we're talking about poster people's amad 12 00:00:34,670 --> 00:00:31,920 to me but my my evil ex brother-in-law 13 00:00:37,060 --> 00:00:34,680 our pseudo brother-in-law was he still 14 00:00:39,830 --> 00:00:37,070 wanted money for the mob of course and 15 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:39,840 you know this family business and 16 00:00:45,049 --> 00:00:43,410 anything right so I I always a found 17 00:00:46,850 --> 00:00:45,059 money blogging very interesting and then 18 00:00:49,549 --> 00:00:46,860 the second half we have Paul David's 19 00:00:54,350 --> 00:00:49,559 David's on and he's written a book 20 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:54,360 series all kinds of things I mean this 21 00:01:06,080 --> 00:00:57,570 guy blowing America's mind the CIA mind 22 00:01:08,750 --> 00:01:06,090 control drugs LSD in Princeton so yes 23 00:01:09,740 --> 00:01:08,760 yes it does so any rate you know I but 24 00:01:10,940 --> 00:01:09,750 you know I always kind of found 25 00:01:14,750 --> 00:01:10,950 money-laundering interesting you know 26 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:14,760 it's just a little deal but there's lots 27 00:01:21,380 --> 00:01:17,610 of good guests I mean good news stories 28 00:01:24,350 --> 00:01:21,390 rather and one of the things I know 29 00:01:28,060 --> 00:01:24,360 you'll probably be just gaga over the 30 00:01:32,810 --> 00:01:28,070 Damn You Grammy Awards last night but I 31 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:32,820 missed it oh what a heartbreak believe 32 00:01:36,980 --> 00:01:35,250 me didn't miss much I will say this 33 00:01:39,100 --> 00:01:36,990 before I say the rest of the stuff I'm 34 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:39,110 going to say about him the very best 35 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:42,329 without question no doubt take it to the 36 00:01:47,870 --> 00:01:45,570 bank artists and good-looking was was 37 00:01:52,789 --> 00:01:47,880 Lady gaga I've never seen her look any 38 00:01:55,190 --> 00:01:52,799 better in my life that lady she I did a 39 00:01:57,550 --> 00:01:55,200 piano song to start the show and that 40 00:02:00,469 --> 00:01:57,560 was the highlight of the show and OH 41 00:02:03,260 --> 00:02:00,479 concert she's amazing she's so talented 42 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:03,270 I don't know what she did to her skin 43 00:02:07,999 --> 00:02:05,610 but it's like a sandblasted I mean I 44 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:08,009 mean she's not an old person no but I 45 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:11,970 mean she had like covered her all kind 46 00:02:13,980 --> 00:02:12,490 of skin 47 00:02:16,230 --> 00:02:13,990 I don't know what the heck they did 48 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:16,240 sandblaster down in the back whatever 49 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:17,290 but she looked really better than I've 50 00:02:22,590 --> 00:02:19,330 ever seen her and she did an excellent 51 00:02:25,650 --> 00:02:22,600 excellent vocals I really wanted to see 52 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:25,660 it on my DVR and it deleted it for no 53 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:26,290 good reason 54 00:02:34,110 --> 00:02:28,810 rotten good friendly service I was so 55 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:34,120 ticked I've seen some of the highlights 56 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:35,770 but I mean she always puts on a 57 00:02:41,250 --> 00:02:38,890 fantastic show she's super talented well 58 00:02:43,590 --> 00:02:41,260 she was like I say the the best of the 59 00:02:45,180 --> 00:02:43,600 lot but she didn't really enter into the 60 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:45,190 picture much and I did like Little Big 61 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:47,290 Town they're pretty good I had there one 62 00:02:54,090 --> 00:02:52,450 of my favorite country groups but of you 63 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:54,100 two are in the barge performing I 64 00:02:58,620 --> 00:02:57,130 thought that'd look neat well I mean you 65 00:03:00,180 --> 00:02:58,630 know there's some good little spots but 66 00:03:01,860 --> 00:03:00,190 what I'm saying what great news they 67 00:03:06,420 --> 00:03:01,870 were trying to politicize it by knocking 68 00:03:08,580 --> 00:03:06,430 poor downtrodden Trump and I know I know 69 00:03:12,930 --> 00:03:08,590 truck they even had Hillary Clinton on 70 00:03:15,420 --> 00:03:12,940 there oh that was hilarious I did see 71 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:15,430 that I was rolling that was funny 72 00:03:19,350 --> 00:03:17,530 all that's ridiculous one of these 73 00:03:22,260 --> 00:03:19,360 Grammy Award weasels trying to 74 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:22,270 politicize the Grammys for if they 75 00:03:26,670 --> 00:03:24,370 didn't it would have been like where 76 00:03:29,340 --> 00:03:26,680 where are they in the universe they had 77 00:03:33,090 --> 00:03:29,350 to sew a lot in the news every day it's 78 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:33,100 changing it's like sports what's that 79 00:03:38,490 --> 00:03:36,610 got to do with a bunch of singers I yeah 80 00:03:40,650 --> 00:03:38,500 I don't know I mean they try to use 81 00:03:42,090 --> 00:03:40,660 their platform of course these things 82 00:03:44,220 --> 00:03:42,100 and then they had a white guy at the 83 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:44,230 very end it was some kind of wannabe 84 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:46,650 rapper and he was trying to push 85 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:51,970 unfettered immigration who's that I 86 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:54,490 don't know no wasn't Eminem was some guy 87 00:03:58,560 --> 00:03:56,650 nobody's ever heard of that I don't know 88 00:04:04,980 --> 00:03:58,570 where he came out of but some new new 89 00:04:06,150 --> 00:04:04,990 guy doesn't matter it doesn't was just 90 00:04:07,260 --> 00:04:06,160 you don't see that many white rappers 91 00:04:08,610 --> 00:04:07,270 but there's a few yeah 92 00:04:10,530 --> 00:04:08,620 but what I'm saying is I don't care 93 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:10,540 whether he was a green rapper he I mean 94 00:04:18,570 --> 00:04:15,010 he's he's saying he wants an ended you 95 00:04:22,350 --> 00:04:18,580 know unfettered immigration I don't how 96 00:04:24,150 --> 00:04:22,360 most people don't I mean yes well maybe 97 00:04:25,830 --> 00:04:24,160 for making millions of dollars as a rap 98 00:04:28,230 --> 00:04:25,840 star you can you 99 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:28,240 you don't care but frankly if if you had 100 00:04:32,310 --> 00:04:30,610 hundreds of Mexican rappers coming up 101 00:04:34,530 --> 00:04:32,320 here sucking up your jobs you'd probably 102 00:04:38,070 --> 00:04:34,540 care all over the place which is a crazy 103 00:04:40,170 --> 00:04:38,080 idea but who knows but any rate so much 104 00:04:42,450 --> 00:04:40,180 for that but it was it was different it 105 00:04:44,610 --> 00:04:42,460 really was but I've never been that 106 00:04:48,780 --> 00:04:44,620 crazy for the Grammys except Lady gaga 107 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:48,790 but you know nuts to this Louisell but 108 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:51,850 anyhow at Hillary Clinton she's more 109 00:04:56,730 --> 00:04:54,810 crooked than the shop even cup does even 110 00:04:58,440 --> 00:04:56,740 merit even being in the same 111 00:05:03,240 --> 00:04:58,450 conversation with being as crooked as 112 00:05:05,879 --> 00:05:03,250 Hillary yes oh well you heard John 113 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:05,889 legato who was on retired FBI agent said 114 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:07,570 they're nothing but a criminal and 115 00:05:12,390 --> 00:05:09,370 murderous enterprise I mean he was on 116 00:05:14,310 --> 00:05:12,400 just a few months with us ago I mean he 117 00:05:16,770 --> 00:05:14,320 wasn't making it up but placate me he's 118 00:05:22,010 --> 00:05:16,780 a retired FBI agent next marine I mean 119 00:05:24,330 --> 00:05:22,020 come on from New York 120 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:24,340 yes but the Clintons have got a body 121 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:26,530 count that'd make the mob look like 122 00:05:34,230 --> 00:05:32,279 now before we lit before we take our 123 00:05:36,629 --> 00:05:34,240 break there's a Navy pilot who describes 124 00:05:39,629 --> 00:05:36,639 the UFO sighting as a white tic-tac the 125 00:05:44,550 --> 00:05:39,639 size of a plane and this was something 126 00:05:49,350 --> 00:05:44,560 came up in 2004 u.s. Navy pilot 127 00:05:51,690 --> 00:05:49,360 commander David flavor said it was a 128 00:05:54,270 --> 00:05:51,700 white tic-tac about the size of the 129 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:54,280 Hornet which is 40 foot long with no 130 00:05:58,560 --> 00:05:56,530 wings just hanging close to the water 131 00:05:59,940 --> 00:05:58,570 the smooth flying craft left no wake of 132 00:06:02,580 --> 00:05:59,950 the water and began to shadow the 133 00:06:05,219 --> 00:06:02,590 actions of flavor and other pilots a 134 00:06:07,260 --> 00:06:05,229 separate crew tracted and filmed for 1.5 135 00:06:08,850 --> 00:06:07,270 minutes as it got closer my nose is 136 00:06:11,190 --> 00:06:08,860 starting to pull back up it accelerates 137 00:06:13,260 --> 00:06:11,200 and it's gone faster than anything I'd 138 00:06:14,940 --> 00:06:13,270 ever seen in my life we turn around say 139 00:06:16,710 --> 00:06:14,950 let's see go see what's in the water and 140 00:06:18,170 --> 00:06:16,720 there was nothing his blue water in 141 00:06:21,210 --> 00:06:18,180 other words it didn't hit the deck 142 00:06:23,580 --> 00:06:21,220 flavors was a pilot that came forward 143 00:06:25,980 --> 00:06:23,590 and told his story recently as the 144 00:06:29,339 --> 00:06:25,990 Defense Department you know study of 145 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:29,349 UFOs was released they favor mentioned 146 00:06:32,580 --> 00:06:31,090 that so I mean these are the high 147 00:06:34,110 --> 00:06:32,590 quality guys I mean you know 148 00:06:36,779 --> 00:06:34,120 professional Navy pilots these aren't 149 00:06:38,580 --> 00:06:36,789 just some kind of guys out of a bar so 150 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:38,590 obviously Heidi 151 00:06:42,090 --> 00:06:40,450 I see you know they're not going to 152 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:42,100 destroy their credibility by you know 153 00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:45,370 admitting this a lot of money to train 154 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:47,710 them to be great observers as well 155 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:49,690 oh of course these guys ain't nitwits 156 00:06:53,850 --> 00:06:52,210 but anyhow we should have a really good 157 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:53,860 show tonight I guess we'd better go to 158 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:56,050 our first break but we'll have Tom Korea 159 00:07:00,290 --> 00:06:57,490 long and have a lot of interesting snow 160 00:07:02,610 --> 00:07:00,300 we'll be right back 161 00:07:04,830 --> 00:07:02,620 possibly be back with you and it's also 162 00:07:07,590 --> 00:07:04,840 good to be back with Thomas creel he's 163 00:07:12,300 --> 00:07:07,600 the creator and founder at the hunter 164 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:12,310 group he's behind the IVA black money 165 00:07:18,270 --> 00:07:15,250 game and he's an expert in tracing black 166 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:18,280 money for over 35 years including days 167 00:07:24,540 --> 00:07:22,210 at the UN as a sanction expert dealing 168 00:07:26,910 --> 00:07:24,550 with rogue dictators and he's also the 169 00:07:30,300 --> 00:07:26,920 author of money magicians that's good to 170 00:07:31,740 --> 00:07:30,310 have you Tom I'm hoping that he didn't 171 00:07:34,110 --> 00:07:31,750 have a difficult time getting on one 172 00:07:37,230 --> 00:07:34,120 that that unusual manner of getting on 173 00:07:40,110 --> 00:07:37,240 the show no it's pleasure be here thank 174 00:07:45,690 --> 00:07:40,120 you Kevin you know I was telling Heidi 175 00:07:47,460 --> 00:07:45,700 before the earlier on that I I didn't 176 00:07:52,740 --> 00:07:47,470 have much experience with the laundering 177 00:07:54,150 --> 00:07:52,750 money no but I was kind of by I didn't 178 00:07:56,670 --> 00:07:54,160 marry the gal but my pseudo 179 00:07:58,740 --> 00:07:56,680 brother-in-law was you know involved 180 00:08:02,000 --> 00:07:58,750 with the Mafia and they laundered money 181 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:02,010 for the mob and they're very good at it 182 00:08:07,290 --> 00:08:04,890 they owned a nice company and they would 183 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:07,300 cook the books to look like they were 184 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:10,090 doing five times more ice physics and 185 00:08:13,950 --> 00:08:12,250 they were and it was a funnel for mob 186 00:08:16,710 --> 00:08:13,960 money laundering and they also mom 187 00:08:18,570 --> 00:08:16,720 wanted money in Vegas so they were maybe 188 00:08:22,140 --> 00:08:18,580 minor-league money launderers but they 189 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:22,150 they did a good job and and you speak of 190 00:08:26,700 --> 00:08:24,610 that and money laundering the reason 191 00:08:28,710 --> 00:08:26,710 it's called laundry is it's dirty money 192 00:08:31,500 --> 00:08:28,720 and they're cleaning it so that's how I 193 00:08:33,060 --> 00:08:31,510 what they're doing and I want you to 194 00:08:36,540 --> 00:08:33,070 kick out of it guys when I was in 195 00:08:38,730 --> 00:08:36,550 Afghanistan we were trying to teach them 196 00:08:41,790 --> 00:08:38,740 the Western Way of doing business and 197 00:08:44,100 --> 00:08:41,800 living and so forth and they were doing 198 00:08:45,630 --> 00:08:44,110 the exact same thing extorting money and 199 00:08:49,940 --> 00:08:45,640 then cleaning it so I said well we've 200 00:08:53,060 --> 00:08:49,950 taught him well that's what 201 00:08:54,710 --> 00:08:53,070 well see I see I didn't I wasn't 202 00:08:56,150 --> 00:08:54,720 involved personally with that but I mean 203 00:08:58,190 --> 00:08:56,160 I just knew that's what they did and you 204 00:08:59,660 --> 00:08:58,200 hear little snippets and actually they 205 00:09:02,449 --> 00:08:59,670 logged a lot watered a lot of money 206 00:09:07,879 --> 00:09:06,439 he's my understand how they did what 207 00:09:10,850 --> 00:09:07,889 they didn't you know nowadays the money 208 00:09:12,860 --> 00:09:10,860 is so big when I started when I started 209 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:12,870 in this business first of all they 210 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:14,250 didn't even know what to call us now 211 00:09:18,019 --> 00:09:15,690 they're calling us you know forensic 212 00:09:19,759 --> 00:09:18,029 accountants and but back then it was 213 00:09:23,090 --> 00:09:19,769 just the guys crunch in the numbers but 214 00:09:25,430 --> 00:09:23,100 you know $10,000 case was big this was 215 00:09:28,250 --> 00:09:25,440 in Chicago you know it was an alderman 216 00:09:31,069 --> 00:09:28,260 kickin money back so no in the billions 217 00:09:38,900 --> 00:09:31,079 that's the politics of Chicago I'm here 218 00:09:41,780 --> 00:09:38,910 right now actually in Chicago Chicago 219 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:41,790 Public School System I mean the the new 220 00:09:46,819 --> 00:09:44,250 lady in charge just I mean she didn't 221 00:09:48,889 --> 00:09:46,829 even get in the door and she just pulled 222 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:48,899 such garbage just crazy how could she 223 00:09:56,329 --> 00:09:50,970 how could she do it how can she do it so 224 00:09:59,509 --> 00:09:56,339 quickly several schools closed several 225 00:10:01,220 --> 00:09:59,519 schools and then gave gave a contractor 226 00:10:03,050 --> 00:10:01,230 a buddy's so she could get a big 227 00:10:05,689 --> 00:10:03,060 kickback for it because she gave them 228 00:10:11,090 --> 00:10:05,699 the contract like like her first deal 229 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:11,100 she did and it was like just college she 230 00:10:18,740 --> 00:10:13,970 didn't get out the batter's box you 231 00:10:23,150 --> 00:10:18,750 close schools - oh it's just it's so 232 00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:23,160 difficult so typical in Chicago okay 233 00:10:30,740 --> 00:10:27,600 they'll call that a fast learner and 234 00:10:32,990 --> 00:10:30,750 then we've got the billionaire governor 235 00:10:35,780 --> 00:10:33,000 who's like a mini Trump you know it's 236 00:10:37,730 --> 00:10:35,790 like and he's a Republican it's like you 237 00:10:39,439 --> 00:10:37,740 know come on now so how many governors 238 00:10:45,740 --> 00:10:39,449 have been in prison up there but three 239 00:10:48,410 --> 00:10:45,750 or four or something we've had some good 240 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:48,420 governors but yeah Dan Walker was first 241 00:10:54,590 --> 00:10:50,370 and then George Ryan and then obviously 242 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:54,600 the Goa [\h__\h] oh yeah got the hair yeah 243 00:11:00,410 --> 00:10:57,569 Rob Lowe going but yeah you know uh 244 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:00,420 actually uh that makes my beloved New 245 00:11:05,949 --> 00:11:03,410 York look like squeaky clean 246 00:11:07,229 --> 00:11:05,959 I think there's a race between Chicago 247 00:11:11,049 --> 00:11:07,239 and New Orleans 248 00:11:18,069 --> 00:11:11,059 yeah I'm blowing yeah New Orleans is a 249 00:11:19,599 --> 00:11:18,079 festering little city there governor's 250 00:11:21,339 --> 00:11:19,609 go to jail as well and I think they've 251 00:11:23,259 --> 00:11:21,349 had if I remember this right the 252 00:11:26,619 --> 00:11:23,269 congressman had like a hundred thousand 253 00:11:32,499 --> 00:11:26,629 dollars in cash in his freezer Congress 254 00:11:35,409 --> 00:11:32,509 Jefferson it takes a little while 255 00:11:37,359 --> 00:11:35,419 usually to get busted over here yeah I 256 00:11:39,429 --> 00:11:37,369 think they told him you have to have 257 00:11:41,859 --> 00:11:39,439 cold cash so I think he just put it in 258 00:11:45,039 --> 00:11:41,869 his freezer oh you took a really good me 259 00:11:46,659 --> 00:11:45,049 money he didn't when I promised 260 00:11:49,329 --> 00:11:46,669 something a little bit more about this 261 00:11:52,809 --> 00:11:49,339 IVA game this Eva black money game what 262 00:11:55,749 --> 00:11:52,819 what's the format on that well it's a 263 00:11:58,719 --> 00:11:55,759 couple of things and it's it's another 264 00:12:00,609 --> 00:11:58,729 weapon for me and the whole idea is to 265 00:12:03,849 --> 00:12:00,619 have a fun game for the younger 266 00:12:05,889 --> 00:12:03,859 generation to play like a candy crush so 267 00:12:08,590 --> 00:12:05,899 they will play it and then what I've 268 00:12:10,719 --> 00:12:08,600 done is I've integrated in there the 269 00:12:13,869 --> 00:12:10,729 black money messages so one of the games 270 00:12:16,419 --> 00:12:13,879 you will play is named after a Kuwaiti 271 00:12:18,909 --> 00:12:16,429 who is funding the news route front and 272 00:12:22,029 --> 00:12:18,919 he and I have done battle over Twitter 273 00:12:24,279 --> 00:12:22,039 in the courtroom face to face but it the 274 00:12:26,349 --> 00:12:24,289 whole idea is to put you know the 275 00:12:28,869 --> 00:12:26,359 messages out there right in the hands of 276 00:12:38,009 --> 00:12:28,879 the younger generation all about black 277 00:12:41,469 --> 00:12:38,019 money and who the bad guys really are no 278 00:12:43,149 --> 00:12:41,479 no and also the second part of this was 279 00:12:45,939 --> 00:12:43,159 it really just got me irritated that the 280 00:12:48,549 --> 00:12:45,949 bad guys use our inventions they used 281 00:12:51,789 --> 00:12:48,559 Twitter to raise money fund the bad 282 00:12:54,309 --> 00:12:51,799 things they use Facebook they used the 283 00:12:57,729 --> 00:12:54,319 YouTube to create videos I mean we've 284 00:12:59,710 --> 00:12:57,739 all seen the Isis beheadings but haja 285 00:13:01,629 --> 00:12:59,720 actually used YouTube to raise money 286 00:13:03,879 --> 00:13:01,639 then if you really think about it they 287 00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:03,889 used our airplanes to take down the Twin 288 00:13:06,969 --> 00:13:05,929 Towers so I said I'm gonna give them a 289 00:13:09,369 --> 00:13:06,979 taste of their own medicine 290 00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:09,379 I'm doing right back at them with social 291 00:13:16,569 --> 00:13:13,279 media in the game that's pretty cool it 292 00:13:18,489 --> 00:13:16,579 really is but you know the 293 00:13:20,439 --> 00:13:18,499 a little far afield and I don't know if 294 00:13:23,819 --> 00:13:20,449 it fits in the laundered money format I 295 00:13:25,869 --> 00:13:23,829 think it would but Howard Blum was a 296 00:13:28,419 --> 00:13:25,879 commentator actually a liberal 297 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:28,429 commentator we had on perhaps eight or 298 00:13:33,340 --> 00:13:30,290 nine months ago and before that 299 00:13:36,609 --> 00:13:33,350 sometimes but he was saying there's an 300 00:13:41,199 --> 00:13:36,619 Islamic group that buys influence in the 301 00:13:42,429 --> 00:13:41,209 country I remember the name of it Heidi 302 00:13:43,419 --> 00:13:42,439 it's been so long I don't know I don't 303 00:13:45,999 --> 00:13:43,429 know whether you're on with me and that 304 00:13:47,979 --> 00:13:46,009 show or not but but we're talking in the 305 00:13:50,769 --> 00:13:47,989 end the billions of dollars to buy 306 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:50,779 influence and and power here in the US 307 00:13:57,129 --> 00:13:53,569 and I guess that would fit into the 308 00:13:59,379 --> 00:13:57,139 black money category and they don't 309 00:14:00,819 --> 00:13:59,389 another they're just bag [\h__\h] running 310 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:00,829 around with bag men just buying off 311 00:14:04,929 --> 00:14:03,410 congressmen and politicians school 312 00:14:12,579 --> 00:14:04,939 superintendents everybody the little 313 00:14:22,749 --> 00:14:12,589 weasels can buy sex stuff my definition 314 00:14:24,909 --> 00:14:22,759 of black money is very broad any part 315 00:14:27,189 --> 00:14:24,919 along that that that chain of Commerce 316 00:14:29,199 --> 00:14:27,199 if you're touching that black money 317 00:14:32,229 --> 00:14:29,209 you're included so if they're in there 318 00:14:34,090 --> 00:14:32,239 yes please go after them but I always 319 00:14:36,309 --> 00:14:34,100 like to you know tell the people I you 320 00:14:38,919 --> 00:14:36,319 know the generals or the or the law 321 00:14:41,559 --> 00:14:38,929 enforcement or the attorneys I like to 322 00:14:43,389 --> 00:14:41,569 go after the getaway driver not the guys 323 00:14:45,069 --> 00:14:43,399 in the in the bank pulling the trigger 324 00:14:47,679 --> 00:14:45,079 but the guys driving the car to help 325 00:14:50,289 --> 00:14:47,689 them get away so those are the guys I 326 00:14:50,799 --> 00:14:50,299 like going after I like that's 327 00:14:54,579 --> 00:14:50,809 interesting 328 00:14:58,150 --> 00:14:54,589 you know honestly lobbying the lobbyists 329 00:15:01,659 --> 00:14:58,160 it's just dirty that was made legal I 330 00:15:03,549 --> 00:15:01,669 mean nothing controlling that it's like 331 00:15:05,829 --> 00:15:03,559 you know it takes thousands of us 332 00:15:08,530 --> 00:15:05,839 pouring into the streets to be heard but 333 00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:08,540 it takes one guy with a big pocket that 334 00:15:14,139 --> 00:15:11,600 got lured in by a company - oh that 335 00:15:16,210 --> 00:15:14,149 probably was in Congress or whatever at 336 00:15:18,489 --> 00:15:16,220 some point you know to get in the door 337 00:15:23,229 --> 00:15:18,499 and to get their way just to persuade 338 00:15:26,529 --> 00:15:23,239 the rules that's that's horrible yeah I 339 00:15:29,409 --> 00:15:26,539 would almost I'm sorry no it's it's 340 00:15:30,070 --> 00:15:29,419 lobbying is transparent I mean we all 341 00:15:37,420 --> 00:15:30,080 know there 342 00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:37,430 advocating because they're being paid I 343 00:15:42,250 --> 00:15:39,710 would bet you I don't know anything 344 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:42,260 concrete but I would bet you that some 345 00:15:46,540 --> 00:15:44,410 if you were newly elected congressman 346 00:15:48,130 --> 00:15:46,550 somewhere within the first few months 347 00:15:49,570 --> 00:15:48,140 somebody from the pharmaceutical 348 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:49,580 industry would come by with a duffel bag 349 00:15:55,540 --> 00:15:53,330 or or less in a more sophisticated way 350 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:55,550 of paying off new congressman I would 351 00:16:01,210 --> 00:15:56,690 almost guarantee it 352 00:16:03,820 --> 00:16:01,220 what do you think so ID some real clear 353 00:16:06,220 --> 00:16:03,830 on that no I know I'm saying that I 354 00:16:07,780 --> 00:16:06,230 would bet this that a new congressman 355 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:07,790 would would be approached by the 356 00:16:11,710 --> 00:16:09,530 pharmaceutical industry within a few 357 00:16:14,020 --> 00:16:11,720 months of showing up I think everybody 358 00:16:16,690 --> 00:16:14,030 gets approached whether they'll admit to 359 00:16:17,950 --> 00:16:16,700 it or not it's you know we believe in 360 00:16:20,530 --> 00:16:17,960 you know I think the average American 361 00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:20,540 really doesn't think it it's all behind 362 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:23,360 closed doors you know meandering but it 363 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:26,570 it is it really is I just think that 364 00:16:30,730 --> 00:16:28,970 they think it's so out in the public I 365 00:16:34,060 --> 00:16:30,740 think they'd be really surprised how 366 00:16:36,820 --> 00:16:34,070 much we are just not in the know about 367 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:36,830 black projects ooh do you consider that 368 00:16:44,140 --> 00:16:40,810 into your the dirty money category 369 00:16:47,830 --> 00:16:44,150 yeah the dark side of of every industry 370 00:16:50,140 --> 00:16:47,840 yeah and there's there's so much in the 371 00:16:53,230 --> 00:16:50,150 dark web there's so many black projects 372 00:16:55,390 --> 00:16:53,240 I mean I got shut down by the CIA a 373 00:16:58,420 --> 00:16:55,400 number of times and I would overlook why 374 00:17:02,770 --> 00:16:58,430 and they would just say you know you 375 00:17:04,510 --> 00:17:02,780 don't need to know your business well 376 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:04,520 see that's what I wondered about that 377 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:07,610 well at what amounts is black budget of 378 00:17:12,490 --> 00:17:10,250 our budget at one time I remember that 379 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:12,500 Donald Rumsfeld the guy that was the 380 00:17:17,710 --> 00:17:15,170 Secretary of Defense under Bush he just 381 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:17,720 admitted oh yes the Pentagon's lost two 382 00:17:21,939 --> 00:17:19,850 trillion dollars don't know two or three 383 00:17:23,980 --> 00:17:21,949 were throwing something like that two 384 00:17:24,939 --> 00:17:23,990 point three I think it was he the figure 385 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:24,949 he mentioned and then we don't know 386 00:17:28,090 --> 00:17:26,570 where it went and everybody just 387 00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:28,100 swallowed that down like he just said 388 00:17:34,750 --> 00:17:33,110 it's a sunny day right well I always 389 00:17:37,810 --> 00:17:34,760 think remember that movie the Charlie 390 00:17:40,420 --> 00:17:37,820 Wilson movie no I don't think so 391 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:40,430 no no congressman he was a congressman 392 00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:43,010 Charlie Wilson the Charlie Wilson Wars 393 00:17:47,530 --> 00:17:44,000 they funded the air 394 00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:47,540 scans when the Russian over there okay 395 00:17:52,330 --> 00:17:50,240 yeah that's and it was a movie Tom Hanks 396 00:17:54,970 --> 00:17:52,340 played Charlie Wilson but that's reality 397 00:18:01,900 --> 00:17:54,980 that was the black money going over to 398 00:18:05,170 --> 00:18:01,910 the Afghans and buying the weapons yeah 399 00:18:08,290 --> 00:18:05,180 what I've heard Reuters I've heard 400 00:18:10,900 --> 00:18:08,300 rumors and I don't know the validity of 401 00:18:13,030 --> 00:18:10,910 it I think they was they've been 402 00:18:15,790 --> 00:18:13,040 repeated often enough that the bushes 403 00:18:18,070 --> 00:18:15,800 had c-130s shuffling money on over to 404 00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:18,080 the Middle East and loaded up the dough 405 00:18:24,370 --> 00:18:20,480 I mean we're talking billions of dollars 406 00:18:28,570 --> 00:18:24,380 and nobody ever questioned it or asked 407 00:18:30,970 --> 00:18:28,580 for accounting you know here's one in it 408 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:30,980 goes back to Afghanistan again the the 409 00:18:35,470 --> 00:18:32,690 amount of cash that moved out of their 410 00:18:37,570 --> 00:18:35,480 country first of all our country sent a 411 00:18:39,750 --> 00:18:37,580 lot of money over there I think it's 412 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:39,760 over a trillion now over the 16 years 413 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:43,130 but I was I traced the money so I was 414 00:18:49,690 --> 00:18:44,450 spent a lot of time at the central bank 415 00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:49,700 and I traced on one day 135 million in 416 00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:52,400 cash leaving Kabul Airport 417 00:19:01,780 --> 00:18:56,000 over to Dubai yeah it was on talents it 418 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:01,790 was just it was all cash US dollars they 419 00:19:08,260 --> 00:19:03,890 filed a form with the central bank it 420 00:19:10,570 --> 00:19:08,270 was legal come on if I went to Australia 421 00:19:13,020 --> 00:19:10,580 with more than what 7 grand in my pocket 422 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:13,030 or five I don't remember what it was you 423 00:19:20,830 --> 00:19:15,650 would be busted and never allowed back 424 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:20,840 in the country ever rules apply to the 425 00:19:27,370 --> 00:19:25,850 regular bozos yes oh I was so mad that's 426 00:19:29,620 --> 00:19:27,380 like you mean I have to put my money in 427 00:19:31,630 --> 00:19:29,630 a bank and access it that way and get 428 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:31,640 tagged with all these taxes to pull my 429 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:33,650 own money out just to go live over in 430 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:36,050 Australia for a bit yep can't put it in 431 00:19:40,510 --> 00:19:37,850 your pockets and they'll claim it 432 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:40,520 otherwise like jeez 433 00:19:44,260 --> 00:19:42,530 I get the biggest kick out of the air 434 00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:44,270 defense was well if they follow the 435 00:19:48,220 --> 00:19:45,470 forms it's legal 436 00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:48,230 I said no hey so they can file all the 437 00:19:52,890 --> 00:19:50,240 forms they want what that money is going 438 00:19:56,110 --> 00:19:52,900 to be used for is not good things I 439 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:56,120 don't care if they file for it hundred 440 00:20:03,310 --> 00:19:57,530 thirty five million cash 441 00:20:03,820 --> 00:20:03,320 is not going for a good cause no did you 442 00:20:05,850 --> 00:20:03,830 hit 443 00:20:09,790 --> 00:20:05,860 didn't you hear I think a recent figure 444 00:20:12,180 --> 00:20:09,800 all El Chapo that little guy that's the 445 00:20:16,770 --> 00:20:12,190 drug pen they arrested about a year ago 446 00:20:26,410 --> 00:20:16,780 that he has 13 billion dollars in assets 447 00:20:33,010 --> 00:20:26,420 13 no Vladimir's got a lot more than 448 00:20:34,930 --> 00:20:33,020 that he's close to stalin anyway well 449 00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:34,940 not Tom I think I've heard lad Amir was 450 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:37,360 worth on the order of 300 billion I 451 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:39,410 don't know what they have not heard that 452 00:20:45,310 --> 00:20:41,810 much but I know he's definitely above 30 453 00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:45,320 billion I don't know whether figure may 454 00:20:49,690 --> 00:20:47,120 have been spurious but I I thought it 455 00:21:02,410 --> 00:20:49,700 was 300 billion but I mean you know that 456 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:02,420 was alleged but I mean oh sure yeah I 457 00:21:07,030 --> 00:21:05,210 don't know just for curiosity since 458 00:21:09,730 --> 00:21:07,040 you've had such an interesting insight 459 00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:09,740 perspective on this are the Rothschilds 460 00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:12,320 still you know I know they're 900 but 461 00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:18,520 are they the richest people in the world 462 00:21:22,980 --> 00:21:21,200 if you will or I don't know what you've 463 00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:22,990 heard if you have any knowledge of that 464 00:21:29,530 --> 00:21:25,280 well I don't know 465 00:21:33,130 --> 00:21:29,540 you know I follow the floors 400 so ok I 466 00:21:35,740 --> 00:21:33,140 don't have any I've acknowledged well I 467 00:21:37,390 --> 00:21:35,750 just had heard internationally they were 468 00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:37,400 still way up there at the top of the 469 00:21:43,270 --> 00:21:40,370 heap I didn't know oh you know where 470 00:21:44,740 --> 00:21:43,280 their age and wild spending or something 471 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:44,750 might have worked them down but I've 472 00:21:48,340 --> 00:21:46,250 heard that they that there's different 473 00:21:52,060 --> 00:21:48,350 groups that have that are richer than 474 00:21:54,850 --> 00:21:52,070 you think that I mean yes you hear about 475 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:54,860 the Waltons and you know Walmart people 476 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:55,850 and so forth and so on 477 00:21:58,750 --> 00:21:57,290 but I mean that there's other groups 478 00:22:00,580 --> 00:21:58,760 that don't occur to you and of course 479 00:22:03,370 --> 00:22:00,590 you hear about warren buffett and gates 480 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:03,380 but there's people beyond a step beyond 481 00:22:09,340 --> 00:22:07,010 them of wealth you know it wasn't it 482 00:22:10,779 --> 00:22:09,350 today that the US Treasury released the 483 00:22:13,269 --> 00:22:10,789 oligarch list 484 00:22:14,289 --> 00:22:13,279 for Russia oh I I don't know I didn't I 485 00:22:16,239 --> 00:22:14,299 didn't see that 486 00:22:18,969 --> 00:22:16,249 I think they released a list of 200 487 00:22:22,389 --> 00:22:18,979 wealthiest individuals out of Russia the 488 00:22:24,339 --> 00:22:22,399 oleg art now they're gonna be sanctioned 489 00:22:26,849 --> 00:22:24,349 but here's the guys with the billions of 490 00:22:29,279 --> 00:22:26,859 dollars and their relationship to Putin 491 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:29,289 yeah 492 00:22:34,810 --> 00:22:32,570 what was the maximum they had did it 493 00:22:39,779 --> 00:22:34,820 show what the maximum the guys had or 494 00:22:43,689 --> 00:22:39,789 did it say here no it didn't show okay 495 00:22:46,930 --> 00:22:43,699 but well I mean a lot of billionaires in 496 00:22:48,759 --> 00:22:46,940 Russia they do have them they really do 497 00:22:50,589 --> 00:22:48,769 and they all pay homage basically to 498 00:22:52,869 --> 00:22:50,599 Vlad at least for the time being until 499 00:22:59,979 --> 00:22:52,879 they decide he's outlived its usefulness 500 00:23:01,479 --> 00:22:59,989 I guess but well yes and then they are 501 00:23:06,879 --> 00:23:01,489 read wooden they arrest the guy that was 502 00:23:08,859 --> 00:23:06,889 the main opposition there so it's a 503 00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:08,869 little bit of a stiff deal getting 504 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:12,799 elected over there but Tom we're gonna 505 00:23:16,329 --> 00:23:14,690 take a break at the bottom of the hour 506 00:23:18,939 --> 00:23:16,339 we get back we might talk about your 507 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:18,949 book and and how to contact your website 508 00:23:23,289 --> 00:23:20,690 and these little functions you've got 509 00:23:26,369 --> 00:23:23,299 you're doing okay thank you write that 510 00:23:30,219 --> 00:23:26,379 we'll be right back 511 00:23:32,519 --> 00:23:30,229 when Heidi and Tom tell us about how to 512 00:23:35,079 --> 00:23:32,529 get up with you your website and any and 513 00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:35,089 money magician's book and any other 514 00:23:41,439 --> 00:23:38,569 things he's like the highlight well I 515 00:23:44,049 --> 00:23:41,449 would like to I like the game and the 516 00:23:45,789 --> 00:23:44,059 website is black money games.com in 517 00:23:48,869 --> 00:23:45,799 right there in the front page you can 518 00:23:52,809 --> 00:23:48,879 download it on iTunes or on Google Play 519 00:23:54,789 --> 00:23:52,819 so I am pushing that because I do want a 520 00:23:56,349 --> 00:23:54,799 million people around the world there's 521 00:23:58,779 --> 00:23:56,359 a bunch of Afghans like a hundred 522 00:24:00,549 --> 00:23:58,789 thousand that have downloaded it and all 523 00:24:02,979 --> 00:24:00,559 three other people were already well and 524 00:24:05,199 --> 00:24:02,989 they just worked with those guys every 525 00:24:08,049 --> 00:24:05,209 single day the I was training them in 526 00:24:10,180 --> 00:24:08,059 their version of fence and their fiu 527 00:24:13,209 --> 00:24:10,190 units and trace the money laundering 528 00:24:15,219 --> 00:24:13,219 which it's big over there and I actually 529 00:24:18,309 --> 00:24:15,229 got to a point where the governor up in 530 00:24:20,919 --> 00:24:18,319 maza Sharif they called me because they 531 00:24:24,130 --> 00:24:20,929 found a million dollars flowing through 532 00:24:26,020 --> 00:24:24,140 his bank account and that's a governor 533 00:24:28,810 --> 00:24:26,030 now governor not making a million 534 00:24:31,390 --> 00:24:28,820 dollars so they found that so I took 535 00:24:34,030 --> 00:24:31,400 good that my training was paying off but 536 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:34,040 they do hate corruption so they've been 537 00:24:39,460 --> 00:24:36,770 downloading my game so what's that well 538 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:39,470 family that has that has like kicked out 539 00:24:43,630 --> 00:24:41,090 the other half the royal family who is 540 00:24:49,060 --> 00:24:43,640 that again who did that over the Middle 541 00:24:52,420 --> 00:24:49,070 East bonus the Saudis okay okay so the 542 00:24:54,610 --> 00:24:52,430 Saudis arrested the new king arrested 543 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:54,620 all the corrupt individuals of the 544 00:25:05,020 --> 00:24:56,810 family and they they did house arrest at 545 00:25:07,390 --> 00:25:05,030 the ritz-carlton go to Saudi Arabia well 546 00:25:12,910 --> 00:25:07,400 got Tom you made the unusual question 547 00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:12,920 for you but it's how do I put it tell 548 00:25:19,450 --> 00:25:15,110 Thea Lee is the mob defunct or are they 549 00:25:20,890 --> 00:25:19,460 still healthy or I mean since you might 550 00:25:25,060 --> 00:25:20,900 have some knowledge of them via the 551 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:25,070 money laundering issue the the mob is 552 00:25:29,470 --> 00:25:27,650 different from the way they operated in 553 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:29,480 the past the Al Capone days are 554 00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:33,290 definitely dead wait yes just in the 555 00:25:37,300 --> 00:25:35,360 breaking of the kneecaps but there's 556 00:25:40,180 --> 00:25:37,310 definitely a still a criminal criminal 557 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:40,190 enterprise and there's tons of bad 558 00:25:45,220 --> 00:25:42,290 things going on in every country so it's 559 00:25:47,890 --> 00:25:45,230 it's not overseas it's not in the Cyprus 560 00:25:51,940 --> 00:25:47,900 it's not in the the offshore islands 561 00:25:55,660 --> 00:25:51,950 it's everywhere once again that's that's 562 00:26:01,990 --> 00:25:55,670 good news for him well no I there must 563 00:26:04,510 --> 00:26:02,000 be a few broken kneecaps somewhere that 564 00:26:06,910 --> 00:26:04,520 happens every weekend in Chicago yeah 565 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:06,920 well no I was offered a job to be one of 566 00:26:12,850 --> 00:26:10,330 those doing it when I was in college I 567 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:12,860 did so I didn't take him up on it but I 568 00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:15,650 mean I was you know considered one of 569 00:26:20,260 --> 00:26:18,710 the family if you will but I just want 570 00:26:21,820 --> 00:26:20,270 to know their relative health in these 571 00:26:25,390 --> 00:26:21,830 days I haven't really kept up with him 572 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:25,400 that much I you know there's a good 573 00:26:31,210 --> 00:26:27,410 friend of mine and you probably will 574 00:26:32,890 --> 00:26:31,220 know Michael Franzese he's he's he's 575 00:26:36,499 --> 00:26:32,900 written a few books he's out of the mob 576 00:26:40,129 --> 00:26:36,509 and he's a reborn Christian now but he's 577 00:26:44,419 --> 00:26:40,139 I I know him now yes the great guy but 578 00:26:47,589 --> 00:26:44,429 he was he was I think the second most 579 00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:47,599 profitable mobster first being Al Capone 580 00:26:53,509 --> 00:26:50,190 yeah and he and I just love him for his 581 00:26:56,299 --> 00:26:53,519 brain power so we went we share these 582 00:26:58,249 --> 00:26:56,309 financial investigation techniques and 583 00:27:03,859 --> 00:26:58,259 because he was taken seven million a 584 00:27:05,629 --> 00:27:03,869 week from the US government yeah that's 585 00:27:08,180 --> 00:27:05,639 not bad taker there really isn't at all 586 00:27:09,739 --> 00:27:08,190 well you know I'm not like mourning them 587 00:27:11,239 --> 00:27:09,749 I just wanted that didn't know how they 588 00:27:12,909 --> 00:27:11,249 did things anymore and I just want to 589 00:27:18,709 --> 00:27:12,919 see if there are still big money players 590 00:27:20,239 --> 00:27:18,719 but you know I just did know we have a 591 00:27:22,489 --> 00:27:20,249 finger on the pulse of how they were 592 00:27:24,949 --> 00:27:22,499 doing sounds like they're alive well and 593 00:27:26,989 --> 00:27:24,959 thriving huh well they just got more 594 00:27:30,199 --> 00:27:26,999 sophisticated in other words yeah 595 00:27:33,589 --> 00:27:30,209 exactly yeah well well a little 596 00:27:35,299 --> 00:27:33,599 sophistication never hurt but at one 597 00:27:37,549 --> 00:27:35,309 time they owned all the casinos in Vegas 598 00:27:39,469 --> 00:27:37,559 I don't know who well I know there's 599 00:27:40,879 --> 00:27:39,479 different front men but I don't know 600 00:27:45,709 --> 00:27:40,889 where they still had a lot of money on 601 00:27:50,959 --> 00:27:45,719 in Vegas you know even Vegas has changed 602 00:27:54,099 --> 00:27:50,969 now yeah I got a kick I was at this 603 00:27:57,349 --> 00:27:54,109 dinner function and we're talking about 604 00:27:59,389 --> 00:27:57,359 humanitarian aid and one of the guys at 605 00:28:01,129 --> 00:27:59,399 the table said we should ask all the 606 00:28:03,499 --> 00:28:01,139 wealthy people in the world to donate 607 00:28:06,229 --> 00:28:03,509 one percent of their net worth and use 608 00:28:07,819 --> 00:28:06,239 that money I said why don't we do 609 00:28:10,389 --> 00:28:07,829 something different there's there's a 610 00:28:13,759 --> 00:28:10,399 trillion dollars stolen every year 611 00:28:16,519 --> 00:28:13,769 dictators by warlords oh you'll get that 612 00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:16,529 money back and use that their answer 613 00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:18,809 honest to god their answer was it's too 614 00:28:27,559 --> 00:28:25,440 hard oh come on I said no I said so it's 615 00:28:29,809 --> 00:28:27,569 easier to go ask for a handout that it 616 00:28:34,009 --> 00:28:29,819 is to actually go get the money from the 617 00:28:35,779 --> 00:28:34,019 bad guys and use that Wow I think we 618 00:28:38,059 --> 00:28:35,789 should stop putting money into these 619 00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:38,069 countries that could care two craps 620 00:28:43,519 --> 00:28:40,529 about us and wait for our special 621 00:28:48,559 --> 00:28:43,529 interests overseas and it's like oh they 622 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:48,569 just burn their flags you know I know 623 00:28:52,490 --> 00:28:50,210 it's real 624 00:28:54,110 --> 00:28:52,500 you know I'll bet you I'll bet you we 625 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:54,120 paid off that little miserable 626 00:28:59,000 --> 00:28:56,730 Kim's Jung Hyung or whatever his name is 627 00:29:01,640 --> 00:28:59,010 this buckets of money I mean just 628 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:01,650 buckets of money I'm sure this is try to 629 00:29:05,410 --> 00:29:04,290 buy them off in like a ting we did it 630 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:05,420 with it father 631 00:29:09,620 --> 00:29:07,890 yeah I'm sure we've continued I'm sure 632 00:29:12,650 --> 00:29:09,630 we've continued there's a money train 633 00:29:15,020 --> 00:29:12,660 going on over there but Oh golly 634 00:29:17,660 --> 00:29:15,030 someday I'm glad you're promoting your 635 00:29:22,820 --> 00:29:17,670 game also is there a website they can go 636 00:29:25,730 --> 00:29:22,830 to for the game it's black it's black 637 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:25,740 money Gamescom my website for the work I 638 00:29:38,990 --> 00:29:29,850 do is hunter forensics comm I'm just 639 00:29:41,030 --> 00:29:39,000 tickled about that black money I've got 640 00:29:42,950 --> 00:29:41,040 pictures of the bad guys I've got the 641 00:29:45,650 --> 00:29:42,960 schemes of the--and the devices the 642 00:29:47,570 --> 00:29:45,660 images I didn't create it but you know 643 00:29:49,940 --> 00:29:47,580 this is the development team and they 644 00:29:55,460 --> 00:29:49,950 did a great job in other words it's a 645 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:55,470 history lesson you're attacking the 646 00:30:03,380 --> 00:29:57,810 backup bad guys you know just you're 647 00:30:05,330 --> 00:30:03,390 part of the team that's hey if you score 648 00:30:07,490 --> 00:30:05,340 really high and getting back at them 649 00:30:09,230 --> 00:30:07,500 like is there like a secret backdoor but 650 00:30:21,260 --> 00:30:09,240 the government is paying attention and 651 00:30:22,550 --> 00:30:21,270 they may hire you I mean you've heard of 652 00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:22,560 these things you know where it's like 653 00:30:26,090 --> 00:30:24,480 somebody puts out a puzzle once a year I 654 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:26,100 forget who it is and they're like there 655 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:28,170 they are pretty certain it's the 656 00:30:31,490 --> 00:30:29,370 government putting it out there and 657 00:30:33,050 --> 00:30:31,500 whoever solves it the best like they're 658 00:30:35,630 --> 00:30:33,060 being contacted to be hired by the 659 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:35,640 government it's like a whole slope weird 660 00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:37,970 and strange and difficult puzzles and 661 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:41,520 algorithms and stuff so I bet I bet 662 00:30:56,660 --> 00:30:53,570 well Thomas I sure have appreciated it 663 00:30:58,820 --> 00:30:56,670 and I guess the thing it is disgusting 664 00:31:01,220 --> 00:30:58,830 is like the thing I mentioned but Howard 665 00:31:02,930 --> 00:31:01,230 Bloom is how much money is being passed 666 00:31:03,650 --> 00:31:02,940 around to buy influence in this country 667 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:03,660 I have no 668 00:31:08,510 --> 00:31:06,570 out that almost every strata of society 669 00:31:10,820 --> 00:31:08,520 that means anything is being bought off 670 00:31:12,650 --> 00:31:10,830 but Thomas it's been great having you 671 00:31:15,140 --> 00:31:12,660 and I look forward to following up on 672 00:31:17,450 --> 00:31:15,150 your game yeah thanks thank you Kevin 673 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:17,460 Thank You Heidi was a pleasure yeah you 674 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:21,450 bet Thanks okay well Heidi I guess we 675 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:23,370 better go to our break before the second 676 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:26,970 half of the show and I don't know Heidi 677 00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:30,090 yeah okay I guess everybody's bought off 678 00:31:36,410 --> 00:31:34,980 we'll be right back okay what's gonna be 679 00:31:38,390 --> 00:31:36,420 back whether you got Heidi Alice on 680 00:31:41,090 --> 00:31:38,400 Widdowson and our second half guest is 681 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:41,100 paul davids who wrote blowing America's 682 00:31:47,090 --> 00:31:44,370 mind CIA mind control drugs LSD in 683 00:31:53,510 --> 00:31:47,100 Princeton and uh Paul that's a pretty 684 00:31:57,380 --> 00:31:53,520 good title for a book thank you blowing 685 00:31:59,360 --> 00:31:57,390 America's mind comes from the headline 686 00:32:04,180 --> 00:31:59,370 of an LA Times editorial 687 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:04,190 back in 1977 when the MKULTRA 688 00:32:09,770 --> 00:32:06,450 experiments of the CIA the mind-control 689 00:32:12,470 --> 00:32:09,780 experiments were exposed as the New York 690 00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:12,480 Times headline said they know this was 691 00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,350 LA Times the CIA blowing America's mind 692 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:18,000 and that was sort of the upshot of the 693 00:32:22,550 --> 00:32:19,770 feeling about what had happened these 694 00:32:26,300 --> 00:32:22,560 experiments had been conducted on 695 00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:26,310 innocent Americans yeah maybe I'm never 696 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:28,880 hearing about that 86 different 697 00:32:34,100 --> 00:32:31,730 institutions were enlisted uh 698 00:32:36,790 --> 00:32:34,110 researchers and psychiatrists paid we're 699 00:32:42,610 --> 00:32:36,800 talking about prisons hospitals and 700 00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:42,620 universities colleges hospitals and 701 00:32:50,690 --> 00:32:45,600 private research centers but what year 702 00:32:53,510 --> 00:32:50,700 was this well it started in 1952 and it 703 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:53,520 went through the 1970s at least I mean 704 00:32:58,460 --> 00:32:55,170 that's when they officially declared an 705 00:33:01,940 --> 00:32:58,470 end to it when it was exposed but the 706 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:01,950 reason for my book blowing America's 707 00:33:08,030 --> 00:33:05,010 mind which is just out i co-wrote with 708 00:33:09,980 --> 00:33:08,040 John Selby the two of us were psychology 709 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:09,990 majors at Princeton University back in 710 00:33:15,470 --> 00:33:14,010 the late 1970s and we enlisted in a 711 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:15,480 project we thought sounded really 712 00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:16,530 fascinating 713 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:18,510 we had no idea it had anything to do 714 00:33:24,910 --> 00:33:22,770 with the CIA and it was conducted near 715 00:33:27,050 --> 00:33:24,920 Princeton at the New Jersey 716 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:27,060 neuropsychiatric Institute which no 717 00:33:31,370 --> 00:33:29,370 longer exists but they had a research 718 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:31,380 bureau then and they were researching 719 00:33:37,730 --> 00:33:35,850 deep hypnosis and psychedelic drugs man 720 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:37,740 running the program was Humphry Osmond 721 00:33:43,850 --> 00:33:40,410 who coined that term psychedelic you 722 00:33:46,490 --> 00:33:43,860 know today if everybody heard but it 723 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:46,500 means mind manifesting and that was the 724 00:33:51,230 --> 00:33:48,570 word he came up with because he didn't 725 00:33:54,470 --> 00:33:51,240 like psychotropic he didn't like Cecotto 726 00:33:56,810 --> 00:33:54,480 mimetic for that class of drugs and we 727 00:34:02,240 --> 00:33:56,820 walked right into this project thinking 728 00:34:04,910 --> 00:34:02,250 that it could have benefits and I like 729 00:34:06,830 --> 00:34:04,920 that his title of an old book by Ken 730 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:06,840 Kesey called One Flew Over the Cuckoo's 731 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:11,490 Nest and that's that's us I mean John 732 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:13,170 Selby and I Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest 733 00:34:16,670 --> 00:34:15,330 for real at the New Jersey 734 00:34:18,530 --> 00:34:16,680 neuropsychiatric Institute and that's 735 00:34:21,740 --> 00:34:18,540 what we that's the story we tell we've 736 00:34:23,870 --> 00:34:21,750 we've waited a long time to tell it 737 00:34:28,820 --> 00:34:23,880 we've waited until everybody else was 738 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:28,830 dead we waited till the coast was clear 739 00:34:35,030 --> 00:34:31,770 you know I think statute of limitations 740 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:35,040 or whatever right and you know but we 741 00:34:39,350 --> 00:34:37,650 have quite a story to tell and it's a 742 00:34:42,740 --> 00:34:39,360 personal story about what happened to us 743 00:34:44,630 --> 00:34:42,750 as part of the program was a really 744 00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:44,640 interesting time so it's toward the end 745 00:34:51,110 --> 00:34:48,960 of the 1960s and at that time we didn't 746 00:34:53,330 --> 00:34:51,120 know at the CIA connection but we did 747 00:34:55,250 --> 00:34:53,340 find that out ten years later and we 748 00:34:58,520 --> 00:34:55,260 became much more wise about what we've 749 00:35:01,010 --> 00:34:58,530 been through that's crazy why do these 750 00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:01,020 things always seem to only come forward 751 00:35:05,630 --> 00:35:03,510 once the cover is blown how was their 752 00:35:07,700 --> 00:35:05,640 cover blown on this anyways it's like 753 00:35:10,130 --> 00:35:07,710 alright so we've been doing this to the 754 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:10,140 American public who trusts us with their 755 00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:13,010 life and security you know they abused 756 00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:15,200 human beings without their knowledge 757 00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:18,720 it's sick yeah yeah that's a really 758 00:35:22,550 --> 00:35:20,250 interesting question 759 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:22,560 back then Richard Helms was head of the 760 00:35:27,940 --> 00:35:26,250 CIA oh yeah and you know he got into a 761 00:35:31,540 --> 00:35:27,950 lot of trouble over iran-contra 762 00:35:33,420 --> 00:35:31,550 he ended up getting fired and was 763 00:35:39,819 --> 00:35:33,430 horribly punished I mean they fined him 764 00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:39,829 $1,500 but he had ordered all the 765 00:35:47,530 --> 00:35:45,710 documents on MKULTRA to be destroyed and 766 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:47,540 somebody didn't follow the order instead 767 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:48,650 of destroying them all 768 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:52,010 somebody took 20 boxes of documents 769 00:35:58,569 --> 00:35:56,170 about the mind-control experiments and 770 00:36:00,130 --> 00:35:58,579 mislabeled them intentionally as 771 00:36:00,849 --> 00:36:00,140 financial documents of some other 772 00:36:04,810 --> 00:36:00,859 project 773 00:36:08,650 --> 00:36:04,820 so when Helms was out Stansfield Turner 774 00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:08,660 came in under Jimmy Carter and someone 775 00:36:13,150 --> 00:36:10,730 found the stumbled upon it then I mean 776 00:36:15,630 --> 00:36:13,160 it was sort of an accident and it was 777 00:36:19,030 --> 00:36:15,640 sort of an oh my god what happened here 778 00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:19,040 the documents were leaked the story was 779 00:36:25,690 --> 00:36:20,960 headline news across the country that 780 00:36:27,790 --> 00:36:25,700 they were doing this and these were not 781 00:36:29,230 --> 00:36:27,800 innocent projects by the way they were 782 00:36:32,970 --> 00:36:29,240 really you know putting people through 783 00:36:35,170 --> 00:36:32,980 through hell in the interests of 784 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:35,180 discovering for example they were 785 00:36:38,650 --> 00:36:36,890 looking for the miracle drug that would 786 00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:38,660 make soldiers lay down their weapons in 787 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:40,730 the battlefield they were looking for 788 00:36:46,089 --> 00:36:43,010 the miracle drug that they could give to 789 00:36:47,470 --> 00:36:46,099 retiring CIA agents so that they could 790 00:36:50,319 --> 00:36:47,480 obliterate their memories of all 791 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:50,329 classified material Wow 792 00:36:57,190 --> 00:36:53,810 and they had a list of a hundred and 793 00:36:59,319 --> 00:36:57,200 thirty-nine I believe it is different 794 00:37:01,690 --> 00:36:59,329 drugs that they were testing and all of 795 00:37:03,609 --> 00:37:01,700 this came in up and what also came out 796 00:37:07,589 --> 00:37:03,619 was that the New Jersey neuropsychiatric 797 00:37:11,710 --> 00:37:07,599 Institute where we had been enlisted as 798 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:11,720 guinea pigs in this research unknowingly 799 00:37:18,460 --> 00:37:16,450 what it was that they were one of the 800 00:37:20,319 --> 00:37:18,470 institutions listed that had been 801 00:37:23,380 --> 00:37:20,329 involved and the names of the doctors 802 00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:23,390 and now there was a professor connected 803 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:26,000 with Princeton New York Times had a 804 00:37:30,700 --> 00:37:28,730 headline of CIA tells Columbia 805 00:37:32,559 --> 00:37:30,710 University and Princeton of the secret 806 00:37:34,359 --> 00:37:32,569 behavioral research well we think we 807 00:37:35,530 --> 00:37:34,369 knew they knew it all along but this was 808 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:35,540 you know sort of official notification 809 00:37:40,930 --> 00:37:38,210 and they paid everyone through these 810 00:37:41,290 --> 00:37:40,940 bogus organizations that they set up 811 00:37:43,660 --> 00:37:41,300 these 812 00:37:46,090 --> 00:37:43,670 corporations that had really no purpose 813 00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:46,100 other than to be paymaster in a way that 814 00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:48,710 would be that the source of the funds 815 00:37:56,290 --> 00:37:51,710 would be untraceable and that was true 816 00:37:58,870 --> 00:37:56,300 at the at the Institute so listen it's 817 00:38:00,850 --> 00:37:58,880 blowing America's mind it's a it's a 818 00:38:03,070 --> 00:38:00,860 personal story I mean it's like it's a 819 00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:03,080 confession from both of us of things 820 00:38:07,540 --> 00:38:04,400 that we didn't want to talk about for 821 00:38:12,670 --> 00:38:07,550 decades and we've waited till we were 822 00:38:15,340 --> 00:38:12,680 senior citizens now having you have - 823 00:38:17,550 --> 00:38:15,350 yeah I think so I mean both John Selby 824 00:38:21,250 --> 00:38:17,560 and I have had very productive careers 825 00:38:23,770 --> 00:38:21,260 and in my case it's certainly been very 826 00:38:26,170 --> 00:38:23,780 successful in the entertainment business 827 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:26,180 that I produced and directed a lot of 828 00:38:32,020 --> 00:38:28,970 films oh yeah I had messy but yet but we 829 00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:32,030 were people listening probably seen a 830 00:38:37,870 --> 00:38:34,730 number of my films and I worked on some 831 00:38:40,020 --> 00:38:37,880 of the really major franchises like the 832 00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:40,030 Transformers the original cartoons Oh 833 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:42,560 Marvel oh now you're talking to somebody 834 00:38:50,770 --> 00:38:48,050 that's up for Alex he's apart my name is 835 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:50,780 emblazoned in big letters on the screen 836 00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:54,050 TV screen on 79 of those episodes I was 837 00:38:58,450 --> 00:38:56,480 the production coordinator know I was 838 00:39:00,700 --> 00:38:58,460 there at all the recording sessions you 839 00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:00,710 know with Optimus Prime and Megatron and 840 00:39:04,690 --> 00:39:03,200 you know all that we had oh we must have 841 00:39:07,570 --> 00:39:04,700 had a hundred different voice actors but 842 00:39:10,660 --> 00:39:07,580 so as part of that at Marvel and new 843 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:10,670 Stanley during those days his days of a 844 00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:13,610 depression when he was sure that 845 00:39:19,180 --> 00:39:15,440 spider-man would never get made because 846 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:19,190 five deals had fallen through I was 847 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:21,530 present that the spider-man will never 848 00:39:26,350 --> 00:39:24,050 be made beer party in his office one day 849 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:26,360 that a deal fell through so through my 850 00:39:33,130 --> 00:39:29,690 days of Marvel and then then I graduated 851 00:39:37,660 --> 00:39:33,140 - if you call it that - Lucasfilm where 852 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:37,670 you know Lucasfilm had me write six of 853 00:39:51,250 --> 00:39:41,570 the Star Wars sequel novels and those 854 00:39:52,990 --> 00:39:51,260 came out in the 1900 well the first 855 00:39:55,099 --> 00:39:53,000 sleep you see the first leap after 856 00:39:57,890 --> 00:39:55,109 graduating Princeton was to the American 857 00:40:00,470 --> 00:39:57,900 Film Institute in California I was 858 00:40:03,079 --> 00:40:00,480 accepted as one of the 15 select first 859 00:40:05,450 --> 00:40:03,089 students that they took in there and 860 00:40:08,870 --> 00:40:05,460 full fellowship but it was really a 861 00:40:10,670 --> 00:40:08,880 life-changing leap now you know I'd 862 00:40:13,009 --> 00:40:10,680 really been interested in having a 863 00:40:15,410 --> 00:40:13,019 career in in film from the time I was a 864 00:40:17,390 --> 00:40:15,420 kid I used to make oh yeah that's cool 865 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:17,400 you know I'd used to make childhood 866 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:20,130 eight millimeter monster movies I loved 867 00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:22,650 the Montag movies and I was famous at 868 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:24,960 age 13 as a childhood monster movie 869 00:40:30,109 --> 00:40:28,170 maker awesome that was in famous month 870 00:40:34,190 --> 00:40:30,119 there's a Filmland magazine you know the 871 00:40:36,319 --> 00:40:34,200 works and as a kid was cavorting as a 872 00:40:39,109 --> 00:40:36,329 pen pal with people like Dennis Muren 873 00:40:42,650 --> 00:40:39,119 who now has like 10 or 11 Academy Awards 874 00:40:44,900 --> 00:40:42,660 and special effects Rick Baker Rick 875 00:40:46,339 --> 00:40:44,910 Baker monster maker and special makeup 876 00:40:48,859 --> 00:40:46,349 effects he's got another 10 Academy 877 00:40:50,479 --> 00:40:48,869 Awards I don't have my first Academy 878 00:40:52,549 --> 00:40:50,489 Award yet I have won Golden Globe 879 00:40:54,499 --> 00:40:52,559 nomination for Roswell when we beat 880 00:40:57,410 --> 00:40:54,509 Roswell for Showtime Oh who's gonna 881 00:41:00,920 --> 00:40:57,420 mention that Heidi he's got Roswell the 882 00:41:03,620 --> 00:41:00,930 UFO cover-up as far as is yeah yeah that 883 00:41:06,979 --> 00:41:03,630 was a very tough to get it made but I 884 00:41:09,529 --> 00:41:06,989 fought I fought so hard and we finally 885 00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:09,539 got it yes but yes but it's back when I 886 00:41:16,609 --> 00:41:12,480 was at Princeton I didn't quite have the 887 00:41:20,089 --> 00:41:16,619 courage to pursue this I was headed for 888 00:41:21,789 --> 00:41:20,099 medical school Oh thinking yeah I was 889 00:41:23,839 --> 00:41:21,799 taking the science courses and 890 00:41:26,930 --> 00:41:23,849 struggling my way through organic 891 00:41:29,539 --> 00:41:26,940 chemistry thought I wanted to be a 892 00:41:31,549 --> 00:41:29,549 psychiatrist you know at that time I 893 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:31,559 thought I sort of wanted to be the next 894 00:41:35,150 --> 00:41:33,690 time for asthma you know the psychedelic 895 00:41:38,509 --> 00:41:35,160 pioneer and do research 896 00:41:40,569 --> 00:41:38,519 LSD therapy and all of that so yeah I 897 00:41:44,089 --> 00:41:40,579 got involved in the program but the 898 00:41:49,370 --> 00:41:44,099 program was a two-edged sword I always 899 00:41:52,099 --> 00:41:49,380 say it wasn't all negative I had some 900 00:41:55,339 --> 00:41:52,109 good experiences but there were some 901 00:41:58,940 --> 00:41:55,349 nightmares and particularly my my 902 00:42:01,039 --> 00:41:58,950 co-writer John Selby his story I think 903 00:42:04,700 --> 00:42:01,049 his story is is more even more 904 00:42:07,980 --> 00:42:04,710 compelling than mine he really lays 905 00:42:10,590 --> 00:42:07,990 himself there what happened to him 906 00:42:13,710 --> 00:42:10,600 while he was a subject at the Institute 907 00:42:17,010 --> 00:42:13,720 and having his memory erased having his 908 00:42:21,060 --> 00:42:17,020 past erased you know so tampered with 909 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:21,070 with hypnotic conditions and the 910 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:25,210 manipulation they were they were looking 911 00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:27,010 for people's behaviors under deep 912 00:42:32,010 --> 00:42:29,520 hypnosis when they changed their 913 00:42:34,020 --> 00:42:32,020 perceptions they changed their sense of 914 00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:34,030 reality in some fundamental way each 915 00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:38,110 different session so they might erase 916 00:42:42,990 --> 00:42:40,480 your past like I said or erase any sense 917 00:42:46,770 --> 00:42:43,000 of there being a future or stop time or 918 00:42:49,590 --> 00:42:46,780 slow time down mmm 919 00:42:53,609 --> 00:42:49,600 you know out-of-body experiences John 920 00:42:56,810 --> 00:42:53,619 Selby was turned into a bird in one of 921 00:43:00,780 --> 00:42:56,820 the sessions and told to fly away and 922 00:43:02,220 --> 00:43:00,790 well you know I there was some there was 923 00:43:05,910 --> 00:43:02,230 a sonata me Tudor up 924 00:43:08,460 --> 00:43:05,920 that's how I get on this one topic there 925 00:43:13,140 --> 00:43:08,470 was a show this Oh Paul this goes back 926 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:13,150 in the late nineties oh I thought John C 927 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:17,170 white he had that's that in tithings I 928 00:43:23,460 --> 00:43:20,890 think it was was like oh yeah oh yeah 929 00:43:25,410 --> 00:43:23,470 and they had already had an it well see 930 00:43:26,490 --> 00:43:25,420 now this sounds we're just about rated 931 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:26,500 them for the break 932 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:29,290 I can't tell all the dynamics of it but 933 00:43:34,170 --> 00:43:31,690 I have had contact with people that were 934 00:43:35,820 --> 00:43:34,180 yes truly telepathic and there was a 935 00:43:39,210 --> 00:43:35,830 governmental there was a governmental 936 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:39,220 aspect to it and what happened was I had 937 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:41,770 to travel on business but I wanted to 938 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:43,570 see the show but I just had to travel 939 00:43:49,109 --> 00:43:46,530 going out of town so I tried to get a 940 00:43:50,730 --> 00:43:49,119 copy of the sightings at that time there 941 00:43:54,060 --> 00:43:50,740 was Burrell transcripts you could buy 942 00:43:58,650 --> 00:43:54,070 instead of the DVD or whatever and all 943 00:44:00,900 --> 00:43:58,660 eight years were on there for sightings 944 00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:00,910 except that one seer of that one show 945 00:44:06,690 --> 00:44:04,000 they were touting that week somebody put 946 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:06,700 somebody put the kaiidas to the the 947 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:08,170 information because I you know since I'd 948 00:44:11,730 --> 00:44:09,970 personally experienced telepathy and and 949 00:44:13,410 --> 00:44:11,740 what not knew there was a governmental 950 00:44:15,710 --> 00:44:13,420 compound I want to see what they had say 951 00:44:18,090 --> 00:44:15,720 what the subject matter was the the 952 00:44:21,150 --> 00:44:18,100 telepathic capabilities of US 953 00:44:26,260 --> 00:44:24,010 well of course they explored remote 954 00:44:27,549 --> 00:44:26,270 viewing - I think that was came under 955 00:44:30,430 --> 00:44:27,559 the MQ yes 956 00:44:33,809 --> 00:44:30,440 which yes remote viewing yes Oh with 957 00:44:35,470 --> 00:44:33,819 great success Paul loved and heard unity 958 00:44:37,630 --> 00:44:35,480 yeah 959 00:44:41,650 --> 00:44:37,640 how pull it off I think was one of the 960 00:44:43,690 --> 00:44:41,660 guys yet and part of it there was a guy 961 00:44:47,740 --> 00:44:43,700 named Oh Heidi who's that buddy of mine 962 00:44:49,329 --> 00:44:47,750 in Austin only the he was headed 963 00:44:58,510 --> 00:44:49,339 international mud viewing Association 964 00:45:00,789 --> 00:44:58,520 boys name escapes me but he he was 965 00:45:03,609 --> 00:45:00,799 involved with the operation Stargate at 966 00:45:05,859 --> 00:45:03,619 you know in Maryland Fort Meade and but 967 00:45:09,490 --> 00:45:05,869 I mean this was weird to actually 968 00:45:11,289 --> 00:45:09,500 experience it was was quite bizarre but 969 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:11,299 when you experience telepathy let me ask 970 00:45:15,730 --> 00:45:13,970 you and in what sense did you have 971 00:45:17,740 --> 00:45:15,740 telepathic it was communication with 972 00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:17,750 another person what happened yes another 973 00:45:24,670 --> 00:45:21,920 several people yeah and I could 974 00:45:28,029 --> 00:45:24,680 communicate you had an unusual feeling 975 00:45:31,630 --> 00:45:28,039 in the foremost part of your head it's 976 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:31,640 kind of like a pressure and you know it 977 00:45:35,470 --> 00:45:32,930 was like that Kevin come get the 978 00:45:37,599 --> 00:45:35,480 hamburgers or something you know but I 979 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:37,609 mean it was a back and forth just like a 980 00:45:42,609 --> 00:45:39,410 whisper kind of a thing and you heard it 981 00:45:45,250 --> 00:45:42,619 very audibly and it was a you know I 982 00:45:48,819 --> 00:45:45,260 wasn't a great receiver but I was okay 983 00:45:50,500 --> 00:45:48,829 but the evident one half of one percent 984 00:45:54,339 --> 00:45:50,510 of the people in the world have that 985 00:45:57,099 --> 00:45:54,349 capability and with any rate I don't 986 00:45:59,440 --> 00:45:57,109 want to say too much on it but we're 987 00:46:00,819 --> 00:45:59,450 we're just about coming to our top of 988 00:46:05,890 --> 00:46:00,829 the hour break but we've got a lot to 989 00:46:08,289 --> 00:46:05,900 talk about I'll get right back okay 990 00:46:11,260 --> 00:46:08,299 blowing America's mind is the book it's 991 00:46:15,970 --> 00:46:11,270 at Amazon it's both a printed book or a 992 00:46:18,549 --> 00:46:15,980 Kindle or you can get it for any ebook 993 00:46:20,140 --> 00:46:18,559 reader so it's out there now it's just 994 00:46:23,260 --> 00:46:20,150 been out the short while and it took 995 00:46:24,789 --> 00:46:23,270 decades to come to bring this 996 00:46:27,069 --> 00:46:24,799 information we'll be right back to talk 997 00:46:28,979 --> 00:46:27,079 about it just as just to say we'll be 998 00:46:32,829 --> 00:46:28,989 right 999 00:46:36,849 --> 00:46:32,839 was getting back on football and you 1000 00:46:40,839 --> 00:46:36,859 know we we stopped at a particular point 1001 00:46:44,739 --> 00:46:40,849 there but you've done so many things and 1002 00:46:49,089 --> 00:46:44,749 this Roswell the UFO cover-up that that 1003 00:46:51,459 --> 00:46:49,099 was a heck of a topic and well we had we 1004 00:46:53,380 --> 00:46:51,469 got some major stars to be in that movie 1005 00:46:56,519 --> 00:46:53,390 I mean we had Kyle MacLachlan of Twin 1006 00:47:00,880 --> 00:46:56,529 Peaks and we had Dwight Yoakam and 1007 00:47:04,839 --> 00:47:00,890 Martin Sheen is under her play and 1008 00:47:07,559 --> 00:47:04,849 Charles Martin Smith who's he goes back 1009 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:07,569 to being an actor and American Graffiti 1010 00:47:14,499 --> 00:47:10,130 so well you know was just really good 1011 00:47:17,439 --> 00:47:14,509 fortune to get Roswell made I I really 1012 00:47:20,499 --> 00:47:17,449 believed in the testimony that I was 1013 00:47:23,349 --> 00:47:20,509 hearing from the old military people who 1014 00:47:25,979 --> 00:47:23,359 had been there and then I got to hear 1015 00:47:28,509 --> 00:47:25,989 personally from two of our astronauts 1016 00:47:32,289 --> 00:47:28,519 who were absolutely convinced that it 1017 00:47:34,180 --> 00:47:32,299 was an extraterrestrial recovery so 1018 00:47:36,579 --> 00:47:34,190 making the movie was a great adventure 1019 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:36,589 but you know each of the movies most of 1020 00:47:42,039 --> 00:47:40,130 the movies I've done excuse man get rid 1021 00:47:44,529 --> 00:47:42,049 of the frog in my throat most of the 1022 00:47:46,809 --> 00:47:44,539 movies I've done have been on you know 1023 00:47:49,989 --> 00:47:46,819 controversial subjects things that push 1024 00:47:52,749 --> 00:47:49,999 the envelope people oh they'll get their 1025 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:52,759 ideas knocked around from from what what 1026 00:47:57,189 --> 00:47:55,729 I do you know I mean Jesus in India was 1027 00:47:59,199 --> 00:47:57,199 one of them you know the theory that 1028 00:48:02,079 --> 00:47:59,209 Geoff's gonna bring that up yeah was 1029 00:48:06,009 --> 00:48:02,089 yeah yeah on this so you were on the 1030 00:48:11,140 --> 00:48:06,019 Roswell thing I actually met this guy he 1031 00:48:13,479 --> 00:48:11,150 was like a retired Air Force he all 86 1032 00:48:17,319 --> 00:48:13,489 but as sergeant their version of a 1033 00:48:21,309 --> 00:48:17,329 sergeant and he when he was a young Air 1034 00:48:24,459 --> 00:48:21,319 Force guy he met a guy in turn that was 1035 00:48:26,859 --> 00:48:24,469 an officer at at Roswell and that guy 1036 00:48:29,349 --> 00:48:26,869 told him buddy for take it to the bank 1037 00:48:31,180 --> 00:48:29,359 that thing was as alien as alien God 1038 00:48:35,140 --> 00:48:31,190 don't believe any of the BS they told 1039 00:48:36,900 --> 00:48:35,150 you that the Roswell thing was as for 1040 00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:36,910 real as the hand on the end of your arm 1041 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:40,160 absolutely so I I had a meeting at the 1042 00:48:43,790 --> 00:48:40,810 school 1043 00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:43,800 the National Museum of nuclear energy 1044 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:46,960 where I was introduced to one of the 1045 00:48:52,260 --> 00:48:50,050 very old soldiers now who had been at 1046 00:48:55,590 --> 00:48:52,270 Roswell and he described having seen the 1047 00:48:58,710 --> 00:48:55,600 aliens and not something he had ever 1048 00:49:01,770 --> 00:48:58,720 talked about hardly at all and you know 1049 00:49:03,570 --> 00:49:01,780 he'd been trained in the secrecy but you 1050 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:03,580 know he admitted at the game of 1051 00:49:08,310 --> 00:49:06,370 description and you know listening to 1052 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:08,320 someone under those circumstances 1053 00:49:14,580 --> 00:49:12,130 someone who's old and you know toward 1054 00:49:15,630 --> 00:49:14,590 the end of their life you know you're 1055 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:15,640 you're here when you're hearing the 1056 00:49:23,730 --> 00:49:18,850 truth you know you know you can you can 1057 00:49:25,860 --> 00:49:23,740 feel it so you know no that was a great 1058 00:49:27,930 --> 00:49:25,870 adventure the fact that showtimes said 1059 00:49:32,130 --> 00:49:27,940 yes and then that movie has been on TV 1060 00:49:34,430 --> 00:49:32,140 so many times right and then then CBS 1061 00:49:37,770 --> 00:49:34,440 got the rights at one point and since 1062 00:49:41,430 --> 00:49:37,780 CBS got the rights it's really hard to 1063 00:49:43,470 --> 00:49:41,440 find they brought it up they buy it up 1064 00:49:46,530 --> 00:49:43,480 to hold it or something or you know I 1065 00:49:48,150 --> 00:49:46,540 don't know what their policy is now but 1066 00:49:50,010 --> 00:49:48,160 you know they go back to the old days of 1067 00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:50,020 Walter Cronkite when they used to put 1068 00:49:58,860 --> 00:49:54,730 the debunking UFO shows on the air a lot 1069 00:50:01,890 --> 00:49:58,870 of that was you know they were you know 1070 00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:01,900 they were part of the company so there 1071 00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:04,000 were government tools basically yeah 1072 00:50:08,850 --> 00:50:07,090 exactly exactly so our film eventually 1073 00:50:10,290 --> 00:50:08,860 got swallowed up after but that was 1074 00:50:12,870 --> 00:50:10,300 after was on the air around a hundred 1075 00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:12,880 times but you know they haven't released 1076 00:50:19,590 --> 00:50:17,680 the DVD in years and you can't you know 1077 00:50:22,290 --> 00:50:19,600 hard to find on the internet maybe you 1078 00:50:24,660 --> 00:50:22,300 look for Roswell the UFO cover-up you 1079 00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:24,670 might find a pirated version somewhere 1080 00:50:30,510 --> 00:50:29,200 but anyway you know all right well you 1081 00:50:32,850 --> 00:50:30,520 know they had a simp they had a little 1082 00:50:38,460 --> 00:50:32,860 thing just as tangental eaten Roswell is 1083 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:38,470 about that same time they had oh this 1084 00:50:48,450 --> 00:50:43,570 general Ramey who was a majordomo at the 1085 00:50:52,020 --> 00:50:48,460 time but he he was in Fort happy 1086 00:50:53,930 --> 00:50:52,030 yeah head of the Air Force yeah yes in 1087 00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:53,940 Fort Worth what happened was 1088 00:50:58,670 --> 00:50:55,770 had like their little take off when the 1089 00:51:01,760 --> 00:50:58,680 x-files was called the text files okay 1090 00:51:03,620 --> 00:51:01,770 they interesting connection to it Paul 1091 00:51:04,490 --> 00:51:03,630 what happened was they said oh you think 1092 00:51:07,250 --> 00:51:04,500 that was all baloney 1093 00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:07,260 they showed with enhanced techniques 1094 00:51:11,450 --> 00:51:09,810 that Rainey was holding up what was 1095 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:11,460 allegedly the weather balloon or 1096 00:51:16,099 --> 00:51:12,450 something that's supposed to be this 1097 00:51:18,170 --> 00:51:16,109 laughable because and he had a telegram 1098 00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:18,180 he had a telegram in his hand that they 1099 00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:19,920 never liked that advanced technology 1100 00:51:25,339 --> 00:51:22,319 would be able to read in the photo you 1101 00:51:26,300 --> 00:51:25,349 know so he got contradicting sighs there 1102 00:51:29,150 --> 00:51:26,310 was higher elegy 1103 00:51:30,859 --> 00:51:29,160 yes I'm the doggone weather balloon and 1104 00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:30,869 the army I was and never had any 1105 00:51:36,290 --> 00:51:33,930 hieroglyphics on anything yeah I doubt 1106 00:51:38,150 --> 00:51:36,300 they adopted back that but it showed 1107 00:51:39,319 --> 00:51:38,160 that there was a Cossack aliy what I'm 1108 00:51:41,780 --> 00:51:39,329 saying I didn't know about the telegram 1109 00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:41,790 either yeah you know well Ramey I said 1110 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:43,920 he was the head of the the 8th Air Force 1111 00:51:48,319 --> 00:51:46,050 but actually the 8th Army Air Force 1112 00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:48,329 because in those days in 1947 you didn't 1113 00:51:52,849 --> 00:51:50,160 have a separate Air Force yet you've got 1114 00:51:54,380 --> 00:51:52,859 that right thinking in the fall of 1947 1115 00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:54,390 but not that summer when Roswell 1116 00:51:59,599 --> 00:51:56,640 happened well anyway listen that you 1117 00:52:03,460 --> 00:51:59,609 know that was a coverup and MKULTRA that 1118 00:52:08,750 --> 00:52:03,470 my new book is about was a coverup and 1119 00:52:13,609 --> 00:52:08,760 Jesus in India cover up I tell me about 1120 00:52:18,589 --> 00:52:13,619 the yeah you know I mentioned to you I 1121 00:52:21,890 --> 00:52:18,599 mean it came out in 2007 or 2008 first 1122 00:52:24,500 --> 00:52:21,900 it was on the Sundance Channel and then 1123 00:52:28,910 --> 00:52:24,510 NBC Universal distributed the TV around 1124 00:52:30,829 --> 00:52:28,920 the world the the premise is that 1125 00:52:33,050 --> 00:52:30,839 there's 13 years in the life of Christ 1126 00:52:36,170 --> 00:52:33,060 that are not discussed in the Bible from 1127 00:52:38,750 --> 00:52:36,180 age Theroux age 30 the missing years of 1128 00:52:40,339 --> 00:52:38,760 Christ they call it it's one sentence 1129 00:52:44,359 --> 00:52:40,349 about it in the Bible and that's pretty 1130 00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:44,369 vague so in India they have believed for 1131 00:52:51,859 --> 00:52:48,720 hundreds of years that had about age 13 1132 00:52:56,390 --> 00:52:51,869 that Jesus took the Silk Road to the 1133 00:52:58,579 --> 00:52:56,400 east and lived among Hindus and 1134 00:53:02,599 --> 00:52:58,589 Buddhists and that when he began his 1135 00:53:04,910 --> 00:53:02,609 ministry in Judea that was after he had 1136 00:53:07,509 --> 00:53:04,920 been you know to the east and he was 1137 00:53:11,900 --> 00:53:07,519 returning with a lot of 1138 00:53:15,529 --> 00:53:11,910 influenced from Eastern religion you 1139 00:53:17,539 --> 00:53:15,539 know because he no longer preached an 1140 00:53:22,969 --> 00:53:17,549 eye-for-an-eye like the Old Testament 1141 00:53:24,620 --> 00:53:22,979 you know he was Jewish culturally he 1142 00:53:26,449 --> 00:53:24,630 came in with you know love love your 1143 00:53:30,589 --> 00:53:26,459 enemies right well that was much more 1144 00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:30,599 Hindu or Buddhist and so I embarked on a 1145 00:53:38,569 --> 00:53:35,249 film to see is there any evidence at all 1146 00:53:42,319 --> 00:53:38,579 for these ideas about Jesus having been 1147 00:53:44,660 --> 00:53:42,329 in India and I worked with a writer 1148 00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:44,670 named Edward T Martin he wrote a book 1149 00:53:50,690 --> 00:53:47,609 called king of travelers Jesus's Lost 1150 00:53:52,279 --> 00:53:50,700 years in India and I ended up 1151 00:53:54,979 --> 00:53:52,289 republishing that book when it went out 1152 00:53:58,249 --> 00:53:54,989 of print and I went to India with Edie 1153 00:54:00,680 --> 00:53:58,259 and we had had a Hindu crew and we 1154 00:54:03,259 --> 00:54:00,690 traveled across 4000 miles of India 1155 00:54:05,630 --> 00:54:03,269 going to ancient temples Buddhist 1156 00:54:08,359 --> 00:54:05,640 monasteries up into the Himalayas we 1157 00:54:11,839 --> 00:54:08,369 went to Kashmir with loungers very 1158 00:54:14,150 --> 00:54:11,849 dangerous we took our life in our hands 1159 00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:14,160 when we were in Kashmir what's not as 1160 00:54:19,930 --> 00:54:15,930 mere where the bandits there or 1161 00:54:23,539 --> 00:54:19,940 something well no see Kashmir is just a 1162 00:54:27,620 --> 00:54:23,549 it's it's heaven on earth in terms of 1163 00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:27,630 its beauty but it's disputed between the 1164 00:54:32,390 --> 00:54:30,089 Hindus and the Muslims oh yeah 1165 00:54:34,370 --> 00:54:32,400 Pakistan right so there's Indian 1166 00:54:37,130 --> 00:54:34,380 soldiers on every street corner and 1167 00:54:39,140 --> 00:54:37,140 there's terrorism there you know and 1168 00:54:40,849 --> 00:54:39,150 Americans are in danger their State 1169 00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:40,859 Department is not a good idea 1170 00:54:46,609 --> 00:54:42,690 you know but they didn't forbid going 1171 00:54:49,789 --> 00:54:46,619 there so you know they were I think 1172 00:54:51,579 --> 00:54:49,799 around 12 people killed violently about 1173 00:54:55,039 --> 00:54:51,589 two days after we got out of there 1174 00:54:59,569 --> 00:54:55,049 so yeah terrorism sort of followed 1175 00:55:02,509 --> 00:54:59,579 behind us by a few days as Bloods floods 1176 00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:02,519 and you know all kinds of unwelcome 1177 00:55:06,079 --> 00:55:04,650 things was always behind us by a couple 1178 00:55:08,839 --> 00:55:06,089 days were kind of blessed when we made 1179 00:55:13,339 --> 00:55:08,849 the movie but the thing it's current now 1180 00:55:16,809 --> 00:55:13,349 is that I heard from a theater in Italy 1181 00:55:20,390 --> 00:55:16,819 in Florence Italy the Odeon theatre 1182 00:55:21,589 --> 00:55:20,400 Florence Firenze and 1183 00:55:24,109 --> 00:55:21,599 they said that they wanted to have a 1184 00:55:27,650 --> 00:55:24,119 special showing of Jesus in India and it 1185 00:55:28,970 --> 00:55:27,660 would be like for VIPs and so they 1186 00:55:33,950 --> 00:55:28,980 worked that out with me that's gonna 1187 00:55:36,529 --> 00:55:33,960 happen this May May 23rd Jesus in India 1188 00:55:39,170 --> 00:55:36,539 at the Odeon theatre in Florence with 1189 00:55:40,970 --> 00:55:39,180 Italian subtitles and I did fill a 1190 00:55:42,319 --> 00:55:40,980 little of the movie at the Vatican you 1191 00:55:44,510 --> 00:55:42,329 know we got their point of view in there 1192 00:55:47,059 --> 00:55:44,520 too so it's gonna be really interesting 1193 00:55:49,519 --> 00:55:47,069 I've decided to head to Italy you know 1194 00:55:51,109 --> 00:55:49,529 and spend some time over there well that 1195 00:55:56,329 --> 00:55:51,119 sounds like an excellent life you've got 1196 00:55:58,460 --> 00:55:56,339 going on and certainly aren't yeah it's 1197 00:56:01,190 --> 00:55:58,470 a lot of a lot of things have fallen 1198 00:56:03,589 --> 00:56:01,200 into place since my days as an MKULTRA 1199 00:56:05,690 --> 00:56:03,599 subject what is it you know but a lot of 1200 00:56:09,339 --> 00:56:05,700 this a lot of this came about as my 1201 00:56:12,740 --> 00:56:09,349 rebellion against the manipulation and 1202 00:56:14,690 --> 00:56:12,750 and and mind control and the hypnosis 1203 00:56:17,319 --> 00:56:14,700 that I went through where you give 1204 00:56:19,789 --> 00:56:17,329 yourself over to the experiments 1205 00:56:24,140 --> 00:56:19,799 thinking it's for psychological research 1206 00:56:26,180 --> 00:56:24,150 and you're being very manipulated and 1207 00:56:28,339 --> 00:56:26,190 then you know you go into states of 1208 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:28,349 depression and it takes you down and it 1209 00:56:32,630 --> 00:56:31,650 robs you a part of yourself so so I just 1210 00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:32,640 I want to say I 1211 00:56:40,099 --> 00:56:35,599 I got to a point as did my co-author 1212 00:56:44,210 --> 00:56:40,109 we're at different times we quit we left 1213 00:56:46,549 --> 00:56:44,220 abruptly we just got out and it was that 1214 00:56:50,180 --> 00:56:46,559 strength to break free and the rebellion 1215 00:56:52,010 --> 00:56:50,190 of that that from that also came the 1216 00:56:54,019 --> 00:56:52,020 strength by which I said hey you know 1217 00:56:55,970 --> 00:56:54,029 everybody thinks I should be a doctor I 1218 00:56:57,380 --> 00:56:55,980 don't really want to be a doctor I know 1219 00:56:59,059 --> 00:56:57,390 what I want to do they all tell me it's 1220 00:57:02,269 --> 00:56:59,069 crazy to try to go to Hollywood and be a 1221 00:57:04,039 --> 00:57:02,279 filmmaker but it's my life and that's 1222 00:57:05,779 --> 00:57:04,049 what I'm gonna do you see so that 1223 00:57:08,059 --> 00:57:05,789 strength had to come from somewhere 1224 00:57:12,859 --> 00:57:08,069 because everyone I knew was against that 1225 00:57:20,089 --> 00:57:12,869 idea really everybody wants their kid to 1226 00:57:21,980 --> 00:57:20,099 be a doctor they know I just don't find 1227 00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:21,990 that the government ever quits anything 1228 00:57:26,839 --> 00:57:25,170 fully whether they're busted so I'm 1229 00:57:29,029 --> 00:57:26,849 assuming that they took a step forward 1230 00:57:31,370 --> 00:57:29,039 and they got their hands on what it was 1231 00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:31,380 they're looking for because I'm sure you 1232 00:57:40,430 --> 00:57:32,970 must be familiar with military 1233 00:57:43,330 --> 00:57:40,440 abductions or my labs I've because be 1234 00:57:47,089 --> 00:57:43,340 able to do what they did and I saw 1235 00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:47,099 dozens of people where I was at and the 1236 00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:48,720 way that they were able to control the 1237 00:57:52,970 --> 00:57:51,450 people and and tell me oh you're not 1238 00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:52,980 gonna remember any of this I'm like oh 1239 00:57:57,740 --> 00:57:55,440 no I'm gonna remember you you and what 1240 00:58:01,099 --> 00:57:57,750 you're doing right over here they were 1241 00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:01,109 not happy with me and it's it's they've 1242 00:58:04,910 --> 00:58:02,490 got their hands on something I don't 1243 00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:04,920 know you know we we laugh at the movie 1244 00:58:09,140 --> 00:58:06,450 money at men in black you know which was 1245 00:58:13,609 --> 00:58:09,150 a comedy but they had those little hands 1246 00:58:16,370 --> 00:58:13,619 and ones yeah booked with and you know 1247 00:58:17,890 --> 00:58:16,380 then the memory goes blank of the you 1248 00:58:22,190 --> 00:58:17,900 know that was a serious military 1249 00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:22,200 objective and by working with subjects 1250 00:58:28,250 --> 00:58:23,609 and deep hypnose as they were trying to 1251 00:58:31,490 --> 00:58:28,260 see how far they could go yeah so 1252 00:58:33,770 --> 00:58:31,500 blowing America's mind I tell you the 1253 00:58:37,220 --> 00:58:33,780 John Selby side of the story is 1254 00:58:39,079 --> 00:58:37,230 absolutely riveting because see I was a 1255 00:58:41,570 --> 00:58:39,089 year behind him I got into the program a 1256 00:58:42,589 --> 00:58:41,580 year after he was into it he his mind 1257 00:58:45,589 --> 00:58:42,599 had already been blown 1258 00:58:47,420 --> 00:58:45,599 he was manipulated controlled they were 1259 00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:47,430 turning him into a training hypnotist 1260 00:58:50,839 --> 00:58:49,050 and offering him a full-time job the 1261 00:58:52,550 --> 00:58:50,849 next year to keep him there under their 1262 00:58:54,470 --> 00:58:52,560 wing and then we're gonna get him a 1263 00:58:56,089 --> 00:58:54,480 draft deferment for it because it was in 1264 00:58:57,980 --> 00:58:56,099 the national interest they said and he 1265 00:59:01,210 --> 00:58:57,990 wouldn't have to go to Vietnam so they 1266 00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:01,220 got their hooks into him really deep and 1267 00:59:06,859 --> 00:59:03,810 you know he fought he fell in love at 1268 00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:06,869 that time and the Institute considered 1269 00:59:12,530 --> 00:59:09,359 the woman that he was involved with as a 1270 00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:12,540 threat to their research no they yeah 1271 00:59:21,109 --> 00:59:15,330 they used the hypnosis to try to get him 1272 00:59:23,540 --> 00:59:21,119 to break his girlfriend and you see it's 1273 00:59:26,290 --> 00:59:23,550 so well written what John Selby has done 1274 00:59:29,450 --> 00:59:26,300 of the mental agony what he went through 1275 00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:29,460 not understanding the extent to which 1276 00:59:33,980 --> 00:59:31,440 they were using hypnotic conditions to 1277 00:59:36,050 --> 00:59:33,990 you know for example bring on about of 1278 00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:36,060 nausea when he's with her it's 1279 00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:40,250 programmed into him through hypnosis and 1280 00:59:45,020 --> 00:59:43,650 then eventually when it didn't work to 1281 00:59:46,769 --> 00:59:45,030 get him to break up with her they 1282 00:59:49,709 --> 00:59:46,779 offered her a job at the end 1283 00:59:51,739 --> 00:59:49,719 Institute to pull her into the family so 1284 00:59:55,949 --> 00:59:51,749 to speak and keep honor their control 1285 00:59:58,079 --> 00:59:55,959 this may build them go on to to there's 1286 00:59:59,880 --> 00:59:58,089 a confrontation that's real it's all 1287 01:00:01,709 --> 00:59:59,890 real everything here we're writing what 1288 01:00:03,509 --> 01:00:01,719 happened to us you know we just waited 1289 01:00:07,199 --> 01:00:03,519 decades come out with it and admit it 1290 01:00:09,739 --> 01:00:07,209 but John Selby's confrontation with the 1291 01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:09,749 President of Princeton at that time 1292 01:00:16,709 --> 01:00:15,130 robert f going was very conservative you 1293 01:00:19,199 --> 01:00:16,719 know son of I think Presbyterian 1294 01:00:22,289 --> 01:00:19,209 ministers who came from a long line that 1295 01:00:24,509 --> 01:00:22,299 had a family and there was a 1296 01:00:28,469 --> 01:00:24,519 confrontation of the worlds as John 1297 01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:28,479 Selby tried to talk to him about LSD and 1298 01:00:34,049 --> 01:00:30,130 what was happening on campus and the 1299 01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:34,059 Institute and he decided that that 1300 01:00:39,839 --> 01:00:36,880 President of Princeton was you know 1301 01:00:42,179 --> 01:00:39,849 heavily CIA connected himself and one of 1302 01:00:46,199 --> 01:00:42,189 the things that raises your eyebrows on 1303 01:00:49,819 --> 01:00:46,209 that is that Robert F cohan was 1304 01:00:53,549 --> 01:00:49,829 appointed to be the ambassador to India 1305 01:00:54,269 --> 01:00:53,559 by Richard Nixon after he was president 1306 01:00:56,789 --> 01:00:54,279 of Princeton 1307 01:00:59,699 --> 01:00:56,799 so that's a nuclear-armed country he's 1308 01:01:01,499 --> 01:00:59,709 our American ambassador I mean he must 1309 01:01:04,620 --> 01:01:01,509 have had some really deep government 1310 01:01:06,959 --> 01:01:04,630 connections and sure you know John Selby 1311 01:01:08,459 --> 01:01:06,969 saw evidence of this and we both felt 1312 01:01:12,269 --> 01:01:08,469 that we had walked into this enormous 1313 01:01:15,239 --> 01:01:12,279 spider web and and you know and and and 1314 01:01:17,370 --> 01:01:15,249 Princeton was part of it but the 1315 01:01:22,109 --> 01:01:17,380 Princeton experience as it comes across 1316 01:01:24,479 --> 01:01:22,119 in blowin America's mind is really 1317 01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:24,489 something to behold it was the end of 1318 01:01:29,370 --> 01:01:26,890 the era of Princeton as all-male school 1319 01:01:32,009 --> 01:01:29,380 there were no women there when we were 1320 01:01:33,179 --> 01:01:32,019 there okay Michelle Obama eventually 1321 01:01:38,159 --> 01:01:33,189 graduated from Princeton 1322 01:01:42,059 --> 01:01:38,169 so did what is the Supreme Court justice 1323 01:01:44,759 --> 01:01:42,069 Sotomayor's first name oh yeah golly I 1324 01:01:46,199 --> 01:01:44,769 don't know and Eleanor Kagan so two 1325 01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:46,209 Supreme Court justice you know there 1326 01:01:50,459 --> 01:01:47,890 were a lot of women who went on to be 1327 01:01:52,649 --> 01:01:50,469 very prominent who eventually graduated 1328 01:01:55,679 --> 01:01:52,659 from Princeton but when we were there no 1329 01:01:59,039 --> 01:01:55,689 women so you're getting to see Princeton 1330 01:02:00,630 --> 01:01:59,049 this in its twilight era as this 1331 01:02:05,870 --> 01:02:00,640 all-male party school 1332 01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:05,880 now that that has this insidiousness and 1333 01:02:13,500 --> 01:02:10,330 underneath through the these experiments 1334 01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:13,510 that were going on by the CIA that that 1335 01:02:23,670 --> 01:02:19,090 was hmm boy then what a deal that really 1336 01:02:25,260 --> 01:02:23,680 is well you know I wonder really you 1337 01:02:27,210 --> 01:02:25,270 know like I say that as far as I've 1338 01:02:28,770 --> 01:02:27,220 mentioned earlier about the sightings 1339 01:02:30,690 --> 01:02:28,780 deal where they kind of the government 1340 01:02:32,940 --> 01:02:30,700 or somebody must have covered up the 1341 01:02:35,250 --> 01:02:32,950 records for that show I guess the 1342 01:02:37,980 --> 01:02:35,260 question would be Paul why did they let 1343 01:02:40,470 --> 01:02:37,990 them love do that show anyway why didn't 1344 01:02:41,820 --> 01:02:40,480 they get a food on to it and say well 1345 01:02:44,490 --> 01:02:41,830 you know we better put the kibosh on 1346 01:02:46,860 --> 01:02:44,500 producing that they actually did you 1347 01:02:49,350 --> 01:02:46,870 know air the show they just killed that 1348 01:02:51,660 --> 01:02:49,360 odd pests Kevin there's a really good 1349 01:02:54,210 --> 01:02:51,670 question and it has a really interesting 1350 01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:54,220 answer I think you see there were a 1351 01:03:02,100 --> 01:02:56,410 couple of other shows produced back then 1352 01:03:05,310 --> 01:03:02,110 with a similar kind of effect and let's 1353 01:03:08,130 --> 01:03:05,320 say one of them was sponsoring universe 1354 01:03:10,730 --> 01:03:08,140 AT&T well there was there was one that 1355 01:03:14,010 --> 01:03:10,740 was actually made by the Disney company 1356 01:03:16,650 --> 01:03:14,020 called alien encounters they were 1357 01:03:18,750 --> 01:03:16,660 opening an alien encounter ride I think 1358 01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:18,760 in Disneyworld or something attraction 1359 01:03:25,460 --> 01:03:21,250 really I don't know them and they put 1360 01:03:28,380 --> 01:03:25,470 together a one-hour show about UFOs 1361 01:03:30,930 --> 01:03:28,390 taking the position that this has all 1362 01:03:32,910 --> 01:03:30,940 been covered up forever and it's about 1363 01:03:35,430 --> 01:03:32,920 to be released and we're telling you 1364 01:03:38,690 --> 01:03:35,440 what's going to be released now this one 1365 01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:38,700 hour show was used as kind of a test to 1366 01:03:43,020 --> 01:03:41,170 see what the public reaction would be 1367 01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:43,030 and it was not shown across the whole 1368 01:03:48,420 --> 01:03:46,330 country it was shown in selected cities 1369 01:03:53,190 --> 01:03:48,430 at like 2:00 in the morning or 3:00 in 1370 01:03:55,770 --> 01:03:53,200 the morning all right it was a 1371 01:03:59,100 --> 01:03:55,780 deliberate test and and then there was 1372 01:04:04,340 --> 01:03:59,110 this other show that bill Moore was part 1373 01:04:07,890 --> 01:04:04,350 of that had the aviary the mj-12 1374 01:04:09,330 --> 01:04:07,900 information was touted in this I can't 1375 01:04:11,490 --> 01:04:09,340 remember the name of that one but it was 1376 01:04:13,410 --> 01:04:11,500 another show that was it was clearly a 1377 01:04:14,380 --> 01:04:13,420 test it's like okay let me ask you a 1378 01:04:17,740 --> 01:04:14,390 question here 1379 01:04:20,710 --> 01:04:17,750 there this recent announcement in Hawaii 1380 01:04:22,630 --> 01:04:20,720 and then a few days later in Japan that 1381 01:04:24,910 --> 01:04:22,640 Hawaii and Japan were under attack from 1382 01:04:27,339 --> 01:04:24,920 a North Korean missile and they said 1383 01:04:30,609 --> 01:04:27,349 it's an accident oh we're sorry somebody 1384 01:04:32,890 --> 01:04:30,619 just did something wrong oh yeah oh you 1385 01:04:34,779 --> 01:04:32,900 know this guy who did it he's sorry he 1386 01:04:35,980 --> 01:04:34,789 said he's sorry he's not losing his job 1387 01:04:39,099 --> 01:04:35,990 but we're transferring rims to a 1388 01:04:40,180 --> 01:04:39,109 different Department laterally right 1389 01:04:43,029 --> 01:04:40,190 right right right 1390 01:04:45,789 --> 01:04:43,039 so yet you believe you believe that that 1391 01:04:48,279 --> 01:04:45,799 wasn't a test of course it was a test it 1392 01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:48,289 had any Talent they wanted to see how 1393 01:04:52,950 --> 01:04:50,240 prepared the public was so they're doing 1394 01:04:55,809 --> 01:04:52,960 these things all the time and MKULTRA 1395 01:05:01,930 --> 01:04:55,819 that blowing America's mind is filled 1396 01:05:06,370 --> 01:05:01,940 with had tests such as they would send 1397 01:05:07,450 --> 01:05:06,380 people into subway cars wearing masks so 1398 01:05:09,579 --> 01:05:07,460 they wouldn't breathe it and they'd 1399 01:05:11,620 --> 01:05:09,589 spray LSD on innocent people in there 1400 01:05:15,730 --> 01:05:11,630 now we want to see what would happen 1401 01:05:18,849 --> 01:05:15,740 it's one of the MKULTRA experiments it's 1402 01:05:23,559 --> 01:05:18,859 documented in the files that came out in 1403 01:05:25,269 --> 01:05:23,569 1977 so of course the CIA said we're 1404 01:05:28,029 --> 01:05:25,279 sorry we're sorry when all this came out 1405 01:05:30,099 --> 01:05:28,039 and they had a Senate hearing and Ted 1406 01:05:35,759 --> 01:05:30,109 Kennedy's involved and the Church 1407 01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:35,769 Committee and and in like two days yeah 1408 01:05:42,519 --> 01:05:40,730 two days they say they say this is what 1409 01:05:44,349 --> 01:05:42,529 happened it happened it never would have 1410 01:05:45,789 --> 01:05:44,359 happened under our watch under Jimmy 1411 01:05:47,859 --> 01:05:45,799 Carter Dansville Turner 1412 01:05:49,089 --> 01:05:47,869 you know we renounced it nothing like 1413 01:05:51,220 --> 01:05:49,099 this is ever going to happen again we 1414 01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:51,230 assure you we're gonna go looking for 1415 01:05:55,390 --> 01:05:52,730 the people that were the victims of 1416 01:05:57,160 --> 01:05:55,400 these experiments we're going to 1417 01:05:59,319 --> 01:05:57,170 recompense them and make good by them 1418 01:06:02,170 --> 01:05:59,329 and this will never happen again well 1419 01:06:05,319 --> 01:06:02,180 let me tell you cold day in hell before 1420 01:06:07,470 --> 01:06:05,329 they went after the some of their 1421 01:06:12,819 --> 01:06:07,480 victims to try to make good with them 1422 01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:12,829 sir and up in Canada there was a camera 1423 01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:16,130 on it McGill the experimental women Gail 1424 01:06:20,740 --> 01:06:19,250 Turing yeah it was horrific absolutely 1425 01:06:22,839 --> 01:06:20,750 horrific what he was doing they weren't 1426 01:06:25,990 --> 01:06:22,849 like experiments like dreamed up by the 1427 01:06:27,910 --> 01:06:26,000 Nazis and he was taking people that were 1428 01:06:30,910 --> 01:06:27,920 basically normal and had kind 1429 01:06:34,029 --> 01:06:30,920 for help with depression and anxiety and 1430 01:06:38,859 --> 01:06:34,039 was turning them into basket cases with 1431 01:06:42,339 --> 01:06:38,869 these these mind control techniques this 1432 01:06:44,380 --> 01:06:42,349 is all these people are him they sued 1433 01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:44,390 the CIA they sued camera and do 1434 01:06:48,670 --> 01:06:46,250 we've got headlines about this in our 1435 01:06:50,349 --> 01:06:48,680 book I mean I collected all the key 1436 01:06:53,529 --> 01:06:50,359 newspaper articles about this when it 1437 01:06:56,500 --> 01:06:53,539 was exposed and our book is mainly our 1438 01:06:58,769 --> 01:06:56,510 personal story and then the epilogue we 1439 01:07:01,839 --> 01:06:58,779 get into all the things that we learned 1440 01:07:05,890 --> 01:07:01,849 as time went on about MKULTRA and our 1441 01:07:09,519 --> 01:07:05,900 part in it but we've got articles in 1442 01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:09,529 here that you know prove that this is 1443 01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:10,010 real 1444 01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:12,250 this is what happened here's one article 1445 01:07:17,529 --> 01:07:14,450 Stansfield Turner calls the practice 1446 01:07:19,690 --> 01:07:17,539 abhorrent CIA ran a hundred forty nine 1447 01:07:22,210 --> 01:07:19,700 mind control projects that's the Los 1448 01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:22,220 Angeles Times here's another one from 1449 01:07:30,130 --> 01:07:25,490 the LA Times wanted to silence ex-agents 1450 01:07:33,910 --> 01:07:30,140 CIA once sought an amnesia drug so okay 1451 01:07:37,539 --> 01:07:33,920 there's plenty here to prove that this 1452 01:07:41,650 --> 01:07:37,549 you know happened and and and you know 1453 01:07:44,109 --> 01:07:41,660 worse is going on it just they would not 1454 01:07:47,049 --> 01:07:44,119 in such a thing that was proving to be 1455 01:07:50,589 --> 01:07:47,059 so successful I mean it's it's sick 1456 01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:50,599 probably took different for things 1457 01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:54,170 myself and one of the the most angering 1458 01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:55,970 things were the military objections 1459 01:08:00,490 --> 01:07:57,920 because these are our own people were 1460 01:08:01,630 --> 01:08:00,500 supposed to trust and rely upon they're 1461 01:08:03,789 --> 01:08:01,640 looking you in the face and they're 1462 01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:03,799 lying and they're they're taking you 1463 01:08:09,190 --> 01:08:06,170 against your will they using you as a 1464 01:08:13,539 --> 01:08:09,200 subject you know and speaking about 1465 01:08:15,970 --> 01:08:13,549 testing the the population with this 1466 01:08:18,820 --> 01:08:15,980 release of the Pentagon's information 1467 01:08:20,890 --> 01:08:18,830 saying oh we spent you know over the 1468 01:08:23,019 --> 01:08:20,900 past five years looking twenty two 1469 01:08:26,110 --> 01:08:23,029 million dollars buddy that was you know 1470 01:08:27,879 --> 01:08:26,120 such a load of crap it's like you guys 1471 01:08:30,610 --> 01:08:27,889 have been putting pouring money into 1472 01:08:33,249 --> 01:08:30,620 this you you release this little bitty 1473 01:08:34,689 --> 01:08:33,259 cookie and it's like yeah I turned 1474 01:08:35,890 --> 01:08:34,699 around and I'm asking people on the 1475 01:08:37,079 --> 01:08:35,900 streets the next so how do you feel 1476 01:08:39,269 --> 01:08:37,089 about the government admitting 1477 01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:39,279 that were not alone because they said it 1478 01:08:43,229 --> 01:08:41,290 I was on Tallulah Elizondo said it on 1479 01:08:45,990 --> 01:08:43,239 CNN you know what's your conclusion well 1480 01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:46,000 we're not alone I'm like no one you know 1481 01:08:49,769 --> 01:08:47,650 people are just like cool you know like 1482 01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:49,779 deep in condition to get to this point I 1483 01:08:55,379 --> 01:08:51,250 think to be able to understand running 1484 01:08:57,539 --> 01:08:55,389 around this is a real phenomena that had 1485 01:08:59,309 --> 01:08:57,549 barely made a ripple and people were 1486 01:09:02,490 --> 01:08:59,319 barely even aware that this was 1487 01:09:04,890 --> 01:09:02,500 announced I'm going like I knew it you 1488 01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:04,900 know yeah I always felt that they would 1489 01:09:16,859 --> 01:09:07,449 announce the existence of aliens on the 1490 01:09:18,570 --> 01:09:16,869 same day as a Super Bowl game yeah did 1491 01:09:20,789 --> 01:09:18,580 you deliberately did you deliberately 1492 01:09:21,990 --> 01:09:20,799 schedule this interview to coincide with 1493 01:09:26,249 --> 01:09:22,000 the president's State of the Union 1494 01:09:28,349 --> 01:09:26,259 address yes are you one of those 1495 01:09:33,539 --> 01:09:28,359 insiders I would say something I can 1496 01:09:37,309 --> 01:09:33,549 read into that but no I have people I 1497 01:09:45,140 --> 01:09:37,319 answer to but that's not but there 1498 01:09:52,109 --> 01:09:48,629 that's just such crumbs such crumbs 1499 01:09:54,269 --> 01:09:52,119 [\h__\h] well 20 22 22 million dollar study 1500 01:09:58,859 --> 01:09:54,279 when it's been like you know 22 billion 1501 01:10:01,410 --> 01:09:58,869 yeah yeah you know I know ways of losing 1502 01:10:03,780 --> 01:10:01,420 trillions of dollars that's under a 1503 01:10:06,419 --> 01:10:03,790 cabbage you know you know lasting like 1504 01:10:08,939 --> 01:10:06,429 you said Paul that like supposedly 1505 01:10:12,629 --> 01:10:08,949 operation Stargate closed and that the 1506 01:10:15,209 --> 01:10:12,639 government racked up all its telepathic 1507 01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:15,219 studies and mind control studies that oh 1508 01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:17,170 it's all over and done that's all well 1509 01:10:20,430 --> 01:10:19,090 listen Kevin I think as we're getting to 1510 01:10:22,410 --> 01:10:20,440 the bottom of the hour I'd like a chance 1511 01:10:24,810 --> 01:10:22,420 to emphasize to people where they can 1512 01:10:26,399 --> 01:10:24,820 find blowing America's mind oh 1513 01:10:31,919 --> 01:10:26,409 absolutely 1514 01:10:37,609 --> 01:10:31,929 the book was just published and we 1515 01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:37,619 placed it at amazon.com as a print book 1516 01:10:44,220 --> 01:10:41,170 it's a there's a trade paperback version 1517 01:10:45,899 --> 01:10:44,230 or you can get the eBook version I think 1518 01:10:48,310 --> 01:10:45,909 the trade paperback I think they having 1519 01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:48,320 like an $18 price on that now 1520 01:10:56,649 --> 01:10:52,250 it's nine dollars for the eight dollars 1521 01:10:59,680 --> 01:10:56,659 for the only Kindle I love let me 1522 01:11:02,109 --> 01:10:59,690 explain the cover the cover two guys 1523 01:11:05,169 --> 01:11:02,119 without shirts on a bench that's me and 1524 01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:05,179 my co-author for our Princeton days yeah 1525 01:11:10,030 --> 01:11:07,489 sunning ourselves with Princeton 1526 01:11:11,649 --> 01:11:10,040 University behind us and behind the 1527 01:11:14,410 --> 01:11:11,659 bench that we're sitting on with our 1528 01:11:17,020 --> 01:11:14,420 long hair and our our sort of hippie 1529 01:11:19,629 --> 01:11:17,030 attitude there is sort of a man in black 1530 01:11:22,300 --> 01:11:19,639 wearing dark sunglasses it's hilarious 1531 01:11:25,569 --> 01:11:22,310 over our shoulder and boy did we learn 1532 01:11:26,830 --> 01:11:25,579 that those you call them spooks or men 1533 01:11:29,020 --> 01:11:26,840 in black whatever you want to call them 1534 01:11:31,540 --> 01:11:29,030 you know they were over our shoulder 1535 01:11:36,060 --> 01:11:31,550 then they were over my shoulder when I 1536 01:11:38,890 --> 01:11:36,070 was making Roswell right yeah and and I 1537 01:11:41,350 --> 01:11:38,900 you know I was too tipped off that they 1538 01:11:45,189 --> 01:11:41,360 took great amusement in what I was doing 1539 01:11:47,260 --> 01:11:45,199 with the film Roswell yeah you think I 1540 01:11:48,609 --> 01:11:47,270 was told there were a lot of insiders 1541 01:11:51,250 --> 01:11:48,619 that favored the release of the 1542 01:11:55,149 --> 01:11:51,260 information and that I had my charm my 1543 01:11:58,300 --> 01:11:55,159 cheering squad inside but obviously 1544 01:12:01,390 --> 01:11:58,310 those that keep it secret have won out 1545 01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:01,400 still because they're not admitting 1546 01:12:06,580 --> 01:12:03,050 anything about Roswell and they're 1547 01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:06,590 admitting very very little about the you 1548 01:12:13,390 --> 01:12:11,570 know the alien craft oh you know it'd be 1549 01:12:16,419 --> 01:12:13,400 our great-great-grandchildren maybe 1550 01:12:18,220 --> 01:12:16,429 maybe some more will leak by then do you 1551 01:12:24,550 --> 01:12:18,230 think the men in black are human or no 1552 01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:24,560 oh hi you know you know where that story 1553 01:12:28,450 --> 01:12:26,090 comes from about the men in the black it 1554 01:12:34,030 --> 01:12:28,460 goes back to a book I think by a man 1555 01:12:36,700 --> 01:12:34,040 named Barker when the early 1950s UFO 1556 01:12:40,450 --> 01:12:36,710 books or late 1940s called the flying 1557 01:12:42,970 --> 01:12:40,460 saucers and the three men and supposedly 1558 01:12:46,959 --> 01:12:42,980 this guy Barker who ran a flying saucer 1559 01:12:48,550 --> 01:12:46,969 Club nationally learned the answer to 1560 01:12:50,470 --> 01:12:48,560 the flying saucer mystery and was 1561 01:12:54,510 --> 01:12:50,480 getting ready to expose it and then he 1562 01:12:57,640 --> 01:12:54,520 was visited by three men in black and 1563 01:13:00,100 --> 01:12:57,650 after that visit he resigned as 1564 01:13:01,419 --> 01:13:00,110 president refunded all the members their 1565 01:13:03,100 --> 01:13:01,429 money 1566 01:13:06,669 --> 01:13:03,110 he was never gonna talk about it again 1567 01:13:08,319 --> 01:13:06,679 Wow yeah great burger yeah so whether 1568 01:13:11,049 --> 01:13:08,329 those three men that visited him were 1569 01:13:13,989 --> 01:13:11,059 from here or from Langley Virginia or 1570 01:13:15,939 --> 01:13:13,999 somewhere else who knows yeah but but 1571 01:13:17,649 --> 01:13:15,949 they they can have a way of impressing 1572 01:13:21,879 --> 01:13:17,659 you on that there are certain lines you 1573 01:13:23,739 --> 01:13:21,889 must not cross all right sure there it 1574 01:13:26,469 --> 01:13:23,749 is well Paul I sure appreciate it you've 1575 01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:26,479 got excellent information very excellent 1576 01:13:32,969 --> 01:13:28,610 career as great talking to you hopefully 1577 01:13:39,219 --> 01:13:36,850 thank you I really really enjoy that and 1578 01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:39,229 I hope people's curiosity is now piqued 1579 01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:42,650 about blowing America's mind oh my gosh 1580 01:13:46,899 --> 01:13:44,570 yes well they better be they better be 1581 01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:46,909 you have a good evening and we'll we'll 1582 01:13:53,469 --> 01:13:47,449 keep in touch 1583 01:13:55,270 --> 01:13:53,479 yes thank you thank you so much Heidi 1584 01:13:58,739 --> 01:13:55,280 that was some pretty good stuff there it 1585 01:14:01,270 --> 01:13:58,749 really was Wow and my mind is blown I 1586 01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:01,280 mean you know you wouldn't think I guess 1587 01:14:05,290 --> 01:14:04,010 somehow I guess I'm hopelessly naive but 1588 01:14:06,969 --> 01:14:05,300 you wouldn't think about poor old 1589 01:14:09,609 --> 01:14:06,979 Princeton being involved in that but I 1590 01:14:12,939 --> 01:14:09,619 guess there's slimey's anybody else out 1591 01:14:15,129 --> 01:14:12,949 there but we're gonna have Alan patch 1592 01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:15,139 we're gonna have Alan patch on next week 1593 01:14:19,330 --> 01:14:17,090 and we're going to go to more detail but 1594 01:14:20,910 --> 01:14:19,340 UFOs too but I guess we better say